Haart and me – Rick

Question:

Sure, I

How to first ask for help?

Question:

My advice is to just be open with them, it’s very hard. But my psych usually says, so how are things? which is great because it gives me the chance to just open up straight away and get everything off my mind. good luck and welcome to the group! ~Am~ xxx Oriole Adams <oriolead…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20011107194036.29796.00003400@mb-ch.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> As I mentioned in a previous post, I have not yet mentioned any of my quirks or > behaviors to my doctor.  But I think it’s time to reveal myself.  How does one > do so?  I’ve got an appointment later this month, and I wonder how to broach > the subject.  How did the rest of you seek help? > ~ > Thinking it right, doing it wrong > Is easier from an armchair > Waves of alternatives wash at my sleepiness > Have my eggs poached for breakfast, I guess….

Response:

Thanks for the warm welcome! I’m learning so much by reading all the posts here…..some things I’ve done/felt as long as I can remember, and now I see other folks are the same, and it may be part of OCD.  For example, having so much to do, feeling overwhelmed, not knowing what to do first, so nothing gets done.  Or my seemingly constant need for reassurance….I ask someone if such-and-such is OK, they say yes, and I’ll ask "are you sure?"  "you’re sure you don’t mind?" "promise me it’s OK?"  etc etc, certainly driving them nuts. Thanks again for the responses, and just for being here. ~ Thinking it right, doing it wrong Is easier from an armchair Waves of alternatives wash at my sleepiness Have my eggs poached for breakfast, I guess….

Response:

Thanks for the responses.  I think you’re right about showing him my hands; in fact, I can maybe lead off by asking for a lotion for them and take it from there. My husband teased me saying he’ll take a package of my pens (I keep all my pens in their original packaging, in the same order they came in from the store) with us to the doctor, and start writing with them, and put them back in the wrong order without wiping them off, and then I won’t have to say a word to the doctor! ~ Thinking it right, doing it wrong Is easier from an armchair Waves of alternatives wash at my sleepiness Have my eggs poached for breakfast, I guess….

Response:

In message <20011107194036.29796.00003…@mb-ch.aol.com>, Oriole Adams <oriolead…@aol.com> writes >As I mentioned in a previous post, I have not yet mentioned any of my >quirks or behaviors to my doctor.  But I think it’s time to reveal >myself. How does one do so?  I’ve got an appointment later this month, >and I wonder how to broach the subject.

One thing that strikes me is to show him/her your hands and explain how they have got that way. Emphasize that your hand cleaning is something you feel compelled to do. Since this is the most basic ‘classic’ symptom of OCD the doctor should catch on to what kind of problem you’re describing. I’ve no experience of this myself, but all the advice I’ve heard says – don’t be afraid to write things down. Obsessional problems can be very hard to explain so it can be easier to write down the things that are upsetting you and show them to the doctor. Just some ideas!.. — simon smith

Response:

As I mentioned in a previous post, I have not yet mentioned any of my quirks or behaviors to my doctor.  But I think it’s time to reveal myself.  How does one do so?  I’ve got an appointment later this month, and I wonder how to broach the subject.  How did the rest of you seek help? ~ Thinking it right, doing it wrong Is easier from an armchair Waves of alternatives wash at my sleepiness Have my eggs poached for breakfast, I guess….

Response:

> As I mentioned in a previous post, I have not yet mentioned any or > behaviors to my doctor.  But I think it’s time to reveal myself.  How does one > do so?  I’ve got an appointment later this month, and I wonder how to broach > the subject.  How did the rest of you seek help?

I first went to a social worker.  The reasoning was insurance and referrals.  The social worker spent about a half hour trying to find out if I hated my parents.  I demonstrated my OCD to the social worker, numbers and syllables, and they immediately got me an appointment at the Cleveland Clinic. The first person I met with was an interning Psychiatrist.  It was nice, because he was free.  He tried to find out about any suicidal tendencies and to determine the amount of time spent on the OCD (6 to 8 hours a day). Celexa was prescribed.  Now on 80 mg’s a day. I was then referred to Dr. Scott Bea.  Fantastic Psychologist who got me started in books and CBT’s.  I went to about 5 sessions and really got a hold of myself and my brain. I still see the intern for the meds, but have been doing very well. I only told my wife and my best friend when I first ‘came out’.  It took 8 months before I told anyone else.  My Mother and Father were very worried about my calmness and meditation techniques.  They are very Christian and feared I was turning New Age. I was able to assure them that the meditation and the calmness is a result of trying to battle OCD.  They were quite reassured that I wasn’t turning into a channeler or something.  :-P Rock on.

Response:

Mr Extraordinary (which me thinks may be even better than Extraspecial!)

Question:

hey!  i was looking for this post of yours.. i thought it was really good..  but i cannot find it now!  :( i remember i saw your name.. and was about to change newsgroups.. then i just had to click on your name!  i thought i felt  something i might want.. but anyway, that isn’t the point! i am looking for the post you did on schizophrenia.. and how maybe it will just be used as "disease x", well i think that is my terms, for a long time, as they filter other ‘diseases’ out of it.. such as OCD, you said. i was looking through the group for it now, like in a panic cos i’d forgotten what your post was even about!  just that it’s something of interest to me.. especially being half heartedly diagnosed with like 5 or so different things.. i know i have OCD.  but there are other symptoms.. anyways!  (oh, as you prolly noticed, i remembered what yer post was about  lol) anyways.. i don’t want to sound desperate, which i do sound!  perhaps it is a slight compulsion.. well, it is.. but i need that post!  it disappeared on me! i think.. thanks

Response:

"Mahja-Urana @yahoo.com>" <"snafuper<erase> wrote in message

news:3B982FCA.BD0F5810@yahoo.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> hey!  i was looking for this post of yours.. i thought it was really good..  but > i cannot find it now!  :( > i remember i saw your name.. and was about to change newsgroups.. then i just > had to click on your name!  i thought i felt  something i might want.. but > anyway, that isn’t the point! > i am looking for the post you did on schizophrenia.. and how maybe it will just > be used as "disease x", well i think that is my terms, for a long time, as they > filter other ‘diseases’ out of it.. such as OCD, you said. > i was looking through the group for it now, like in a panic cos i’d forgotten > what your post was even about!  just that it’s something of interest to me.. > especially being half heartedly diagnosed with like 5 or so different things.. i > know i have OCD.  but there are other symptoms.. anyways!  (oh, as you prolly > noticed, i remembered what yer post was about  lol) > anyways.. i don’t want to sound desperate, which i do sound!  perhaps it is a > slight compulsion.. well, it is.. but i need that post!  it disappeared on me! > i think.. > thanks

Is this it?  (I hope Mr. X doesn’t mind me reposting it) Lily _____________________________ On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:41:06 -0700, henandchick@<))))><.com wrote: >www.antipsychiatry.org >SCHIZOPHRENIA >A Nonexistent Disease >by Lawrence Stevens, J.D.

8<————– Did you really have to read this to figure out the doctors don’t know what they’re doing? Hey, maybe they’ll never find the cause of it and just keep redefining other illnesses from it (like OCD) until it cancels itself out of it’s own theoretical existance. Who knows? Mr X.

Response:

aha.. thank yas.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -TigerLily wrote: > "Mahja-Urana @yahoo.com>" <"snafuper<erase> wrote in message > news:3B982FCA.BD0F5810@yahoo.com… > > hey!  i was looking for this post of yours.. i thought it was really > good..  but > > i cannot find it now!  :( > > i remember i saw your name.. and was about to change newsgroups.. then i > just > > had to click on your name!  i thought i felt  something i might want.. but > > anyway, that isn’t the point! > > i am looking for the post you did on schizophrenia.. and how maybe it will > just > > be used as "disease x", well i think that is my terms, for a long time, as > they > > filter other ‘diseases’ out of it.. such as OCD, you said. > > i was looking through the group for it now, like in a panic cos i’d > forgotten > > what your post was even about!  just that it’s something of interest to > me.. > > especially being half heartedly diagnosed with like 5 or so different > things.. i > > know i have OCD.  but there are other symptoms.. anyways!  (oh, as you > prolly > > noticed, i remembered what yer post was about  lol) > > anyways.. i don’t want to sound desperate, which i do sound!  perhaps it > is a > > slight compulsion.. well, it is.. but i need that post!  it disappeared on > me! > > i think.. > > thanks > Is this it?  (I hope Mr. X doesn’t mind me reposting it) > Lily > _____________________________ > On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:41:06 -0700, henandchick@<))))><.com wrote: > >www.antipsychiatry.org > >SCHIZOPHRENIA > >A Nonexistent Disease > >by Lawrence Stevens, J.D. > 8<————– > Did you really have to read this to figure out the doctors don’t know > what they’re doing? > Hey, maybe they’ll never find the cause of it and just keep redefining > other illnesses from it (like OCD) until it cancels itself out of it’s > own theoretical existance. > Who knows? > Mr X.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mahja-Urana <"snafuper<erase>"@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:3B982FCA.BD0F5810@yahoo.com>… > hey!  i was looking for this post of yours.. i thought it was really good..  but > i cannot find it now!  :( > i remember i saw your name.. and was about to change newsgroups.. then i just > had to click on your name!  i thought i felt  something i might want.. but > anyway, that isn’t the point! > i am looking for the post you did on schizophrenia.. and how maybe it will just > be used as "disease x", well i think that is my terms, for a long time, as they > filter other ‘diseases’ out of it.. such as OCD, you said. > i was looking through the group for it now, like in a panic cos i’d forgotten > what your post was even about!  just that it’s something of interest to me.. > especially being half heartedly diagnosed with like 5 or so different things.. i > know i have OCD.  but there are other symptoms.. anyways!  (oh, as you prolly > noticed, i remembered what yer post was about  lol) > anyways.. i don’t want to sound desperate,

Hey, if you want to sound desperate, this is the place to do, bro!  which i do sound!  perhaps it is a – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> slight compulsion.. well, it is.. but i need that post!  it disappeared on me! > i think.. > thanks

Response:

lili wrote: > Mahja-Urana <"snafuper<erase>"@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:3B982FCA.BD0F5810@yahoo.com>… > > anyways.. i don’t want to sound desperate, > Hey, if you want to sound desperate, this is the place to do, bro!

yes.. you are right, sis!  :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  which i do sound!  perhaps it is a > > slight compulsion.. well, it is.. but i need that post!  it disappeared on me! > > i think.. > > thanks

Response:

Mahja-Urana <"snafuper<erase>"@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:3B992639.3FE9E581@yahoo.com>… > lili wrote: > > Mahja-Urana <"snafuper<erase>"@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:3B982FCA.BD0F5810@yahoo.com>… > > > anyways.. i don’t want to sound desperate, > > Hey, if you want to sound desperate, this is the place to do, bro! > yes.. you are right, sis!  :)

Don’t get me started.  :)  M-u-s-t t e l l j o k e… What’s a wacky wacker whack-whack s’pposed ta do? Well, I think I do want to sound desperate, but only on tuesdays. (Any questions?) Oh-my-god, I feel like a funky spunk.  Screeeeeech, that was me putting the breaks on.  Buh-bye now.  (Oy!Oy!Oy!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >  which i do sound!  perhaps it is a > > > slight compulsion.. well, it is.. but i need that post!  it disappeared on me! > > > i think.. > > > thanks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -lili wrote: > Mahja-Urana <"snafuper<erase>"@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:3B992639.3FE9E581@yahoo.com>… > > lili wrote: > > > Mahja-Urana <"snafuper<erase>"@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:3B982FCA.BD0F5810@yahoo.com>… > > > > anyways.. i don’t want to sound desperate, > > > Hey, if you want to sound desperate, this is the place to do, bro! > > yes.. you are right, sis!  :) > Don’t get me started.  :)  M-u-s-t t e l l j o k e… > What’s a wacky wacker whack-whack s’pposed ta do?

masturbate?  lol are you calling me names here?  :) > Well, I think I do want to sound desperate, but only on tuesdays. > (Any questions?) > Oh-my-god, I feel like a funky spunk.  Screeeeeech, that was me > putting the breaks on.  Buh-bye now.  (Oy!Oy!Oy!)

wooo.. were you feeling a bit ‘toey’ here?  haha..  either that or you are just trying to tease me!  :) so ok, question.  it is monday here right now, so how about you email me tomorrow?  lol.  i can’t figure out if  you were teasing me, or "teasing" me! eck, ok.  Screeeech!  that was Me putting my breaks on.  oy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >  which i do sound!  perhaps it is a > > > > slight compulsion.. well, it is.. but i need that post!  it disappeared on me! > > > > i think.. > > > > thanks

Response:

On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 02:26:22 -0400, "TigerLily" <nos…@excite.com> wrote: >Is this it?  (I hope Mr. X doesn’t mind me reposting it) >Lily >_______

Nope, not at all ) I haven’t been around much lately or I’d probably have reposted it myself. Mr X. __ ____________________ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:41:06 -0700, henandchick@<))))><.com wrote: >>www.antipsychiatry.org >>SCHIZOPHRENIA >>A Nonexistent Disease >>by Lawrence Stevens, J.D. >8<————– >Did you really have to read this to figure out the doctors don’t know >what they’re doing? >Hey, maybe they’ll never find the cause of it and just keep redefining >other illnesses from it (like OCD) until it cancels itself out of it’s >own theoretical existance. >Who knows? >Mr X.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mahja-Urana <"snafuper<erase>"@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:3B9D16D3.D26A8750@yahoo.com>… > lili wrote: > > Mahja-Urana <"snafuper<erase>"@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:3B992639.3FE9E581@yahoo.com>… > > > lili wrote: > > > > Mahja-Urana <"snafuper<erase>"@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:3B982FCA.BD0F5810@yahoo.com>… > > > > > anyways.. i don’t want to sound desperate, > > > > Hey, if you want to sound desperate, this is the place to do, bro! > > > yes.. you are right, sis!  :) > > Don’t get me started.  :)  M-u-s-t t e l l j o k e… > > What’s a wacky wacker whack-whack s’pposed ta do? > masturbate?  lol

No, no ‘whack’ like whacked out, whacky, whack.  Out there, babee! Wuz talking bout myself, but hey, if the shoe fits! > are you calling me names here?  :) > > Well, I think I do want to sound desperate, but only on tuesdays. > > (Any questions?) > > Oh-my-god, I feel like a funky spunk.  Screeeeeech, that was me > > putting the breaks on.  Buh-bye now.  (Oi! Oi! Oi!) > wooo.. were you feeling a bit ‘toey’ here?  haha..  either that or

 you are just > trying to tease me!  :)

Toey???  Toey???  What on earth are you talking about?  Notice the change in spelling in the above ‘oi’(was oy).  Oy is what you say if you speak yiddish.  My mistake. > so ok, question.  it is monday here right now, so how about you email me > tomorrow?  lol.  i can’t figure out if  you were teasing me, or "teasing" me! > > eck, ok.  Screeeech!  that was Me putting my breaks on.  oy

None of the above, frenchy.  Just totally and completely actin the fool! > > > >  which i do sound!  perhaps it is a > > > > > slight compulsion.. well, it is.. but i need that post!  it disappeared on me! > > > > > i think.. > > > > > thanks

Any clue what we are talking about?  Me neither.

Response:

lili wrote: > > > > >  which i do sound!  perhaps it is a > > > > > > slight compulsion.. well, it is.. but i need that post!  it disappeared on me! > > > > > > i think.. > > > > > > thanks > Any clue what we are talking about?  Me neither.

lol.  i didn’t have a clue, i actually asked someone before what you were saying! so i responded with same language haha i remember getting some vague sense out of it all that you were saying how you are "sexually excited" at the time of writing it!  lol.  i donno, don’t ask. anyways. <turns page real fast>  hehe

Response:

why it’s Mr Exxxxtraooooooordinary. thanks – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mr Extraordinary wrote: > On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 02:26:22 -0400, "TigerLily" <nos…@excite.com> > wrote: > >Is this it?  (I hope Mr. X doesn’t mind me reposting it) > >Lily > >_______ > Nope, not at all ) > I haven’t been around much lately or I’d probably have reposted it > myself. > Mr X. > __ > ____________________ > >On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:41:06 -0700, henandchick@<))))><.com wrote: > >>www.antipsychiatry.org > >>SCHIZOPHRENIA > >>A Nonexistent Disease > >>by Lawrence Stevens, J.D. > >8<————– > >Did you really have to read this to figure out the doctors don’t know > >what they’re doing? > >Hey, maybe they’ll never find the cause of it and just keep redefining > >other illnesses from it (like OCD) until it cancels itself out of it’s > >own theoretical existance. > >Who knows? > >Mr X.

Response:

voyg wrote: > xoxo_l…@hotmail.com (lili) wrote : > >> > What’s a wacky wacker whack-whack s’pposed ta do? > Hum… I’d like to be this wacker ! > E

lol.  hey E!  (Eminem?) i have such a toothache.   no i lie, it just got better in the last minute.. but it’s been getting so bad.  i really gotta get myself over to the dentist :p just thought i’d complain here, where else so cold…  i woke up "just then" earlier, it’s like 2.13am atm.   might check the tv, see if anything new’s happened with this whole "America Under Attack" thingie  lol should go back to bed then. hmm after i’ve smoked what’s left of the cones that are ‘chopped’ it is my hourglass sometimes

Response:

yea?  and you haven’t heard voices in a while?.. perhaps it’s not your job to convince yourself one way or the other.. but just listen and let it come and go..? sorta like thoughts, i guess.  donno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"henandchick@<))))> <.com" wrote: > This all has made the voices come back.  I can’t quite convince myself > that the voices are not the passengers who died on the aeroplane > trying to talk to me. > On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 02:14:53 +0800, mahja-urana > <"snafuper<erase>"@yahoo.com> wrote: > >voyg wrote: > >> xoxo_l…@hotmail.com (lili) wrote : > >> >> > What’s a wacky wacker whack-whack s’pposed ta do? > >> Hum… I’d like to be this wacker ! > >> E > >lol.  hey E!  (Eminem?) > >i have such a toothache.   no i lie, it just got better in the last minute.. > >but it’s been getting so bad.  i really gotta get myself over to the dentist :p > >just thought i’d complain here, where else > >so cold…  i woke up "just then" earlier, it’s like 2.13am atm. > >might check the tv, see if anything new’s happened with this whole "America > >Under Attack" thingie  lol > >should go back to bed then. > >hmm after i’ve smoked what’s left of the cones that are ‘chopped’ > >it is my hourglass sometimes

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -mahja-urana <"snafuper<erase>"@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:3BA03CD5.90AA044F@yahoo.com>… > lili wrote: > > > > > >  which i do sound!  perhaps it is a > > > > > > > slight compulsion.. well, it is.. but i need that post!  it disappeared on me! > > > > > > > i think.. > > > > > > > thanks > > Any clue what we are talking about?  Me neither. > lol.  i didn’t have a clue, i actually asked someone before what you were > saying! > so i responded with same language haha > i remember getting some vague sense out of it all that you were saying how you > are "sexually excited" at the time of writing it!  lol.  i donno, don’t ask. > anyways. <turns page real fast>  hehe

No, no, no!  I was just being silly, throwing out random silly sentences, one on top of the other, that made me laugh!  Been practicing laughing at myself the last week or so!  You won’t find any sexual innuendo from me, I’m a good girl.  I think maybe what you were picking up on was also a fear of ‘letting go’ that I have.  When I get real happy I get scared.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -lili wrote: > mahja-urana <"snafuper<erase>"@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:3BA03CD5.90AA044F@yahoo.com>… > > lili wrote: > > > > > > >  which i do sound!  perhaps it is a > > > > > > > > slight compulsion.. well, it is.. but i need that post!  it disappeared on me! > > > > > > > > i think.. > > > > > > > > thanks > > > Any clue what we are talking about?  Me neither. > > lol.  i didn’t have a clue, i actually asked someone before what you were > > saying! > > so i responded with same language haha > > i remember getting some vague sense out of it all that you were saying how you > > are "sexually excited" at the time of writing it!  lol.  i donno, don’t ask. > > anyways. <turns page real fast>  hehe > No, no, no!  I was just being silly, throwing out random silly sentences, > one on top of the other, that made me laugh!  Been practicing laughing > at myself the last week or so!

aha.  cool   You won’t find any sexual innuendo from > me, I’m a good girl.

dang.  it’s always the "good girls"  hehe   I think maybe what you were picking up on was > also a fear of ‘letting go’ that I have.  When I get real happy I get > scared.

i’ve been having so many dreams where i am in space.. and scared of letting go. i also have this fear of "letting go"  like i even occasionally get to this.. "point".. and freak out totally cos i don’t feel ready or something. this dream the other night i was in space.  and i was floating out there (some distance from earth, but i think it was still in sight) and just holding on to this persons hand who was then attached to a space ship.  well either that or i was holding onto the outside of some space ship.  but if i let go i’d just drift off floating. and i woke up partially, but the dream was still running, and going in and out of it sorta i guess.  and the thought/feeling came upon me that if i let go of this i would be "enlightened" or whatever.. like it’s that point i am scared of.. or it represented it anyway.. but it was really scarey.  but i did it, i let go and i don’t remember much after that!  just the feeling of the ‘let go’.. — "ride on and don’t look back.  you can’t change what’s done. twang twang.  the world is yours you know.. you got to ride to live… live.. to .. ride. and so you know, you ride to live the ride" -fu manchu

Response:

"mahja-urana @yahoo.com>" <"snafuper<erase> wrote in message

news:3BA3E889.FB8E8866@yahoo.com… > i’ve been having so many dreams where i am in space.. and scared of letting go. > i also have this fear of "letting go"  like i even occasionally get to this.. > "point".. and freak out totally cos i don’t feel ready or something.

Have you read Jonathan Livingstone Seagull?  As far as I remember he does the equivalent of "letting go" and ends up in some place so deep and meaningful that he just cannot cope.  He ends up with the "adult" seagulls, perhaps in our lives we might equate this with the Godhead, if you believe that kind of thing. I think if you want to reach a stage where you don’t have to come back to this planet then ultimately you do have to let go. It has to reach a stage where you can be totally alone, have no hand to hold, have no one you feel you can call or talk to, and yet even in that stage you can find a contentment in the belief of what is good, in the knowledge that this life is only transient, and the faith you have found along the way, in music, laughter, sweetness, and things that we, as the insane members of society, have experienced along the way.  And not only us insane people, many people have had near death experiences and visits from angels and the like.  Heard a song they remember from another place, another time.  Met someone that they feel they have known forever. Life is only here and now.  Death is forever. Once you can face the grim reaper with no fear, and almost welcome him, then you can let go, because you will realize that what you are holding on to, is basically nothing in the grand scheme of things.  Who really understands you?  Who can ever give you what you are really looking for?  Who can ever fill the gaping hole that coming here gave us? Basically I have accepted that nothing or no one gives me more comfort than a few bottles of beer and a good CD. Don’t get me wrong, I am very thankful that I have people around me who are always there for me, and who I can hug on a daily basis. But everything is really only a way of getting through. Michelle

Response:

duck wrote: > "mahja-urana @yahoo.com>" <"snafuper<erase> wrote in message > news:3BA3E889.FB8E8866@yahoo.com… > > i’ve been having so many dreams where i am in space.. and scared of > letting go. > > i also have this fear of "letting go"  like i even occasionally get to > this.. > > "point".. and freak out totally cos i don’t feel ready or something. > Have you read Jonathan Livingstone Seagull?

i have seen the movie.. thought it seemed cool, but don’t remember it exactly   As far as I remember he does – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the equivalent of "letting go" and ends up in some place so deep and > meaningful that he just cannot cope.  He ends up with the "adult" seagulls, > perhaps in our lives we might equate this with the Godhead, if you believe > that kind of thing. > I think if you want to reach a stage where you don’t have to come back to > this planet then ultimately you do have to let go. > It has to reach a stage where you can be totally alone, have no hand to > hold, have no one you feel you can call or talk to, and yet even in that > stage you can find a contentment in the belief of what is good, in the > knowledge that this life is only transient, and the faith you have found > along the way, in music, laughter, sweetness, and things that we, as the > insane members of society, have experienced along the way.  And not only us > insane people, many people have had near death experiences and visits from > angels and the like.  Heard a song they remember from another place, another > time.  Met someone that they feel they have known forever. > Life is only here and now.  Death is forever. > Once you can face the grim reaper with no fear, and almost welcome him, then > you can let go, because you will realize that what you are holding on to, is > basically nothing in the grand scheme of things.  Who really understands > you?  Who can ever give you what you are really looking for?  Who can ever > fill the gaping hole that coming here gave us? > Basically I have accepted that nothing or no one gives me more comfort than > a few bottles of beer and a good CD.

lol… thanks for the post.. i agree with much.. but i am still in a doubtful stage about everything. i believe i … tasted.. this void.. or whatever it’s called.. but i was so terrified and disgusted at what i saw to be "myself".. that i kinda went nuts after, and pain. i donno.. and now i keep approaching this edge.. and it’s like i’m too scared to slip or jump in or whatever, and i "cling on" in terror as i feel the slipping..  but i also feel that to just let myself go.. be alone perhaps, as you said.. just lose the familiar i spose. that i’d transcend all this bullshit.  lol > Don’t get me wrong, I am very thankful that I have people around me who are > always there for me, and who I can hug on a daily basis. > But everything is really only a way of getting through. > Michelle

– "ride on and don’t look back.  you can’t change what’s done. twang twang.  the world is yours you know.. you got to ride to live… live.. to .. ride. and so you know, you ride to live the ride" -fu manchu

Response:

THANK YOU ALL!!!

Question:

Thank you, Silvia, for your story about numbers. I can see that you really do understand, especially when you’re in front of the computer ritualizing your "wrong" numbers. I also find some sentences to not "feel right" and so I delete them and type them over again, sometimes three or four times. I’ve wasted more time doing that. Anyway, I hope you’ll find this to be a comfortable place to come to. All the best, John Silvia- <Lowenstein1992NOLoS…@yahoo.es.invalid> wrote in article <209f9e74.ccf79…@usw-ex0109-066.remarq.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  Hi all, >  Just wanted to thank you for your warm welcome to the > newsgroup, especially John, Naomi, Aimee, and Scott. I’ll > try to open an ocd chat room of my own at mIRC. I’ll keep > you update! >  John, I feel very close to what you say in your message > "Here’s my number…". Of course, my right/wrong numbers and > days are others, but the feeling is exactly the same. I work > surrounded by computers and it’s rather hard for me not to > look at the numbers on the screen. I’m constantly > "ritualizing" my wrong numbers, reading them back in my mind > over and over again, and it’s the most painful thing. It > also happens with sentences, reading them mentally back, > syllable by syllable. I hope I can offer some support by > sharing this with you people. >  Best Wishes, >  Silvia. > * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find

related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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 Just a couple of things:  The webpage I entered last night -and intend to enter in a few minutes- is:  http://www.angelfire.com/ms/ocd/page2.html  Thanks for providing it! I met some nice people there.  And also, a warm thanks to Scott for suggesting the mIRC idea.  I once read a line that touched me deeply (I hope I’ll make a good translation from Spanish):  LOVE ME WHEN I DESERVE IT THE LEAST, FOR THAT’S WHEN I WILL NEED IT THE MOST.  Best Wishes,  Silvia. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

 Hi all,  Just wanted to thank you for your warm welcome to the newsgroup, especially John, Naomi, Aimee, and Scott. I’ll try to open an ocd chat room of my own at mIRC. I’ll keep you update!  John, I feel very close to what you say in your message "Here’s my number…". Of course, my right/wrong numbers and days are others, but the feeling is exactly the same. I work surrounded by computers and it’s rather hard for me not to look at the numbers on the screen. I’m constantly "ritualizing" my wrong numbers, reading them back in my mind over and over again, and it’s the most painful thing. It also happens with sentences, reading them mentally back, syllable by syllable. I hope I can offer some support by sharing this with you people.  Best Wishes,  Silvia. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

What's Next?

Question:

tomorrow……. TL

Response:

Chev wrote: > So I’m beginning to accept my OCD diagnosis and recognize various behaviour > that is related … so what now … pop pills and adapt a mindset of ‘oh > that’s just my OCD’ … is that it … it’s just a matter of acceptance … > my pdoc has not discussed BT … we are beginning what he call ‘weekly > sessions’ … 90 minutes a week … I’m not sure what to expect and I’d like > to be prepared … any ideas or advice … thanks … Monica

Hi Monica, I know having OCD can be hard to accept. I was very difficult for me to admit I had a problem I needed (a lot!) of help with. I felt, and still do sometimes, like an inferior person, a ‘less-than’, a weakling and a f*ckup. I had to look at myself differently and that was hard. That said, accepting that you have OCD isn’t going to make it go away but it did help me start dealing with it better. I said, ‘ok, I have this thing called OCD. I get freaked-out easy, my mind gets stuck on yucky thoughts and it can affect my behavior. I need to learn how to deal with this!’. It helped me to become a little obsessive about getting rid of it. I have read a few books about OCD and I just started another. I take my meds like a good girl! I try to remember all the helpful things my therapist has said to me. I’m trying to get myself and my life together. Etc … As for BT, I would ask your pdoc what he means by ‘weekly sessions’. It could very well be BT but I would ask. I can not remember your meds situation but many therapists delay the start of BT until the meds have kicked-in. It makes the BT easier to do and learn from because the therapy doesn’t seem so frightening as it might without meds. I have done CBT, the C meaning cognitive, and it was scary and hard at first but very beneficial. Once I learned some good coping skills that worked for me I got a lot of relief from my contamination obsessions. Is your pdoc experienced with treating people with OCD? — monkey http://pages.hotbot.com/health/sillychickens/ mon…@gilligansisland.net (to email me axe ‘gilligans’) —

Response:

So I’m beginning to accept my OCD diagnosis and recognize various behaviour that is related … so what now … pop pills and adapt a mindset of ‘oh that’s just my OCD’ … is that it … it’s just a matter of acceptance … my pdoc has not discussed BT … we are beginning what he call ‘weekly sessions’ … 90 minutes a week … I’m not sure what to expect and I’d like to be prepared … any ideas or advice … thanks … Monica

Response:

Poll: In what ways are you eccentric? (for riceandpeas)

Question:

Ok, I’ll play.  But this is kind of hard, isn’t it?  We get so used to our own eccentricities that we rarely notice them.

Exactly. * I hate having the radio on in the car if people are talking at the same time.

Oh gods, I cannot stand having 2 noises like that.  If I’m watching tv, and mog wants to play a computer game, he has to put headphones on.  It makes me really anxious and angry and stuff to have 2 clashing noises. * Chewing gum annoys me, unless I’m the one who’s chewing it (legacy of too many students)

YUch. I can’t be around anyone chewing that stuff. It turns my stomach. I have in the past really embarrassed someone by turning to them in the middle of a class and saying "look, if you don’t stop chewing that stuff, I’m going to vomit all over the place.  SO just put it in the bloody bin!" * Half the time, music annoys me if I’m not the one who put it on (even if I like it)

Yep. * The rest of the kitchen can be filthy (or clean), but the counters MUST be wiped off.

Yep. Clean, but cluttered in my kitchen. * I cannot handle it if someone else is cleaning up in my flat, even if it’s mog.  Totally freaks me. * NO-ONE gets to wash my underwear for me.  Sometimes my mother in law takes a load of my laundry to do because we don’t have a washing machine.  BUT I cannot let her do my underwear.  I’d rather do them by hand at home than let someone else do it for me, even in a machine. Again, I’m sure my family would be able to come up with a huge list…. — Wolfbitch / Laz Spashett "damaged people are dangerous, they KNOW they can survive"

Response:

i always back into a parking space always use the same gas station pump never liked carpet, never will i buy at least 50 rolls of toilet paper at any one time i listen only to Yanni  have only Yanni tapes try to keep material possessions to a minimum.  only what can fit into my toyota tercel never type anything longer than one screen page

You have others, too (such as swinging on the chandelier), but you didn’t have any room left to type them because you were at the end of your screen page. Bryan Sin Nombre

Response:

i always back into a parking space always use the same gas station pump never liked carpet, never will i buy at least 50 rolls of toilet paper at any one time i listen only to Yanni  have only Yanni tapes try to keep material possessions to a minimum.  only what can fit into my toyota tercel never type anything longer than one screen page

Response:

I’ve gotten so used to some of my eccentricities that I don’t really know anymore what those things are.  I just keep so much of my life hidden from the world that it’s all subconscious now. Lemmee see….some of mine are *No matter how many layers of clothes, dishes, etc. are on my floor, I still find it imperative to clean the lint out of my keyboard

HAHAHAHAHA YESSSSSSS And my PC desktop is neater and cleaner and more orderly and less clutteredthan anything else in my life. Well, my desk here is still kinda bad…… I used to be given a really hard time about that, and my love of canned air to clean it out, but one of my other friends said that she has the other problem, and if you do too, then I guess its not that uncommon! So There Nuts

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I’ve gotten so used to some of my eccentricities that I don’t really know anymore what those things are.  I just keep so much of my life hidden from the world that it’s all subconscious now.

Lemmee see….some of mine are *No matter how many layers of clothes, dishes, etc. are on my floor, I still find it imperative to clean the lint out of my keyboard *I tend to go on impulsive ebay shopping sprees (have been pretty good lately though) *in my mind numbers and letters have personalities and genders *I have this thing for counting once in a while (this sounds kinda OCD like sometimes)…like I had to yell at myself for weeks to stop counting the number of beanie babies  on my shelves, or how many window panes in each window or room….even though those things hadn’t changed….. I have more, I know…just can’t think of them right now Nuts

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hmmm……how much time have you got? i have such an intense aversion to making phone calls that it is usually necessary for me to enlist the aid of my friends or my kids just to call and schedule appointments for me.   i will go to work sick rather than call in.    and if/when i’m in an extremely depressed suicidal crisis, i have to ride it out on my own, ‘cuz i will not call therp, pdoc or a hot line.    death seems preferable. i am so adept at minimizing and denial. that when the pdoc asked me if there was anything unusually stressful or traumatic about my childhood, i assured him that no, everything was fine, no trauma there.   it wasn’t til later that it occurred to me that perhaps i should have mentioned the deaths of both my parents??? i am so dependant on familiarity that i have to be desperate to consider going to a different grocery store, bank,  pharmacy or gas station.   i will even risk running out of gas just so i can make it to ‘my’ gas station. i am so anti-social that i have lived in some places for years and years without ever getting to know any of my neighbors.   (so even though i’m within driving distance of buffalo, you won’t see me at mary beth’s next weekend!)   and i also cannot stand to have the radio on if i am not the only person in the car…. i am a bit of a slob, but i am compulsive about crumbs or ashes on a table or countertop and have to continually brush them off, even in a bar or restaurant. i only like odd numbers and am disturbed if my house number, phone number or extension has more even numbers in it than odd.   seems like a bad omen…. i am a bookworm and an internet junkie and am so embarrassed by this that i go to great lengths to conceal these weaknesses from friends or family.    almost like hiding a drug or alcohol problem… well, i could go on but i’m starting to worry myself!    and more than you wanted to know! and in an obvious attempt to minimize the ’stranger’ impact, i often close my notes as.. your pal, mad

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<about eccentricities I can’t stand spic and span cleaning. I can’t thoroughly clean anything. It removes the life from a space. I can’t completely finish anything. Basically the same reason. It ends the journey of that thing, and I don’t want it finished. I will make it look finished though…..few will see a stitch left undone. When I paint, I never show a complete figure. Some part is always outside of the frame. Even if I am doing a full length portrait. Other artists have pointed out you’re not supposed to do that, but I have my reasons. One can never assume to show the whole of anyone or anything. Some things should remain hidden. My most eccentric behaviors though I keep private. For the above reason. Sandra

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I eat everything on my plate separately leaving the meat to the end. I will not read a newspaper that my wife has crumpled by reading first. Brian

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i always wear 2 different color socks i often wear 2 different earings often read the ending of a book 1st read the newspaper from back to front like to drink lavoris, the mouth wash not much, just stupid stuff

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said: * NO-ONE gets to wash my underwear for me.  

In fact, now I think about it, I don’t think I’d feel right taking it to my inlaws and washing it myself in their machine… weird, huh? — Wolfbitch / Laz Spashett "damaged people are dangerous, they KNOW they can survive"

Response:

I eat everything on my plate separately leaving the meat to the end. I will not read a newspaper that my wife has crumpled by reading first. Brian

I have to sit on the floor to read newspapers. — Wolfbitch / Laz Spashett "damaged people are dangerous, they KNOW they can survive"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – said: said: * NO-ONE gets to wash my underwear for me.   In fact, now I think about it, I don’t think I’d feel right taking it to my inlaws and washing it myself in their machine… weird, huh? naw, you might be tossing them in with them watching and one falls on the floor.  eek.

I didn’t realise but one pair of my knickers was in with the towels I gave them to wash last time.  I was SO distressed when I found out. — Wolfbitch / Laz Spashett "damaged people are dangerous, they KNOW they can survive"

Response:

<often read the ending of a book first yeah!   i ALWAYS do that!    if the ending is sad, i want to be emotionally prepared.   god forbid i should get emotionally involved with a character that’s going to die or something…. if the ending is good, i want to be able to happily anticipate a sure thing! mad "do not go gentle into that good night…."

Response:

And I type along in time to the music… if I’m singing, it’ll be one click for every syllable. Or sometimes it’ll be along with the rhythm of a CD…. I’m doing it now too (along to the Craft soundtrack.) Laz x – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, I’ll play.  But this is kind of hard, isn’t it?  We get so used to our own eccentricities that we rarely notice them. Exactly. * I hate having the radio on in the car if people are talking at the same time. Oh gods, I cannot stand having 2 noises like that.  If I’m watching tv, and mog wants to play a computer game, he has to put headphones on.  It makes me really anxious and angry and stuff to have 2 clashing noises. * Chewing gum annoys me, unless I’m the one who’s chewing it (legacy of too many students) YUch. I can’t be around anyone chewing that stuff. It turns my stomach. I have in the past really embarrassed someone by turning to them in the middle of a class and saying "look, if you don’t stop chewing that stuff, I’m going to vomit all over the place.  SO just put it in the bloody bin!" * Half the time, music annoys me if I’m not the one who put it on (even if I like it) Yep. * The rest of the kitchen can be filthy (or clean), but the counters MUST be wiped off. Yep. Clean, but cluttered in my kitchen. * I cannot handle it if someone else is cleaning up in my flat, even if it’s mog.  Totally freaks me. * NO-ONE gets to wash my underwear for me.  Sometimes my mother in law takes a load of my laundry to do because we don’t have a washing machine.  BUT I cannot let her do my underwear.  I’d rather do them by hand at home than let someone else do it for me, even in a machine. Again, I’m sure my family would be able to come up with a huge list….

– Wolfbitch / Laz Spashett "damaged people are dangerous, they KNOW they can survive"

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<snip One of probably many: Although my study (until recently — thanks Melia) has crumpled papers and half-destroyed newspapers scattered around the floor, I insist that my books be arranged neatly on my bookshelves, and I freak out if the pages or covers (paperbacks) get wrinkled — and the same holds true for journals I subscribe to.

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    How’s this for eccentric?(just things     I can think of now):     I bite my fingernails and toenails     I tear up napkins and chew on my     clothing      I lose everything and break things     I used to pull out my hair and eat it     I used to be afraid to look at the number     "7"     I talk out loud to myself and have conversations with myself       I AM working on changeing some of these patterns however           "Alvintchase"

Response:

i always wear 2 different color socks i often wear 2 different earings often read the ending of a book 1st read the newspaper from back to front like to drink lavoris, the mouth wash not much, just stupid stuff

This reminded me of an eccentricity I forgot about. I read magazines from back to front as if I’m afraid to commit myself. ..but not papers or pamphlets. Is’nt it odd all the same. I’ve even tried to reverse this but it felt as if "that" was the wrong way. …and I experienced the vaguest feeling of fear. Xplain dat ! The Brian-files

Response:

stripping/dancing?

Question:

To Bonnie’s dilemma : I would take some time to recover.  I know it can be a traumatic thing when someone does what your husband did to you.  I went through it myself about 5 years ago.  I couldn’t imagine what I would do without my ex-girlfriend, and when we split, I was lost.  It took me a long time to rebuild myself and to form an identity that consisted of "me" instead of part "me" and part "whoever" I was dating.  I think that now I am much happier with myself, much more confident, and have much more to offer in a relationship as I feel "complete" in myself, and am no longer looking for someone else to fill the gaps.      I have suffered from OCD for about 10 years and recently (1 year) began taking Zoloft on the recommendation of my psychiatrist.  I qualified for state assistance at the time because of my income, so they didn’t charge me for the visits, and the doctor knew I didn’t have insurance, so he gave me samples for as long as I needed (many doctors will do this if you ask and explain your situation.)  I can’t even begin to explain how much my life has changed.  It wasn’t easy, and I am still fighting, but I have never felt better in my life.  I have had the most amazing year of my life.  I would recommend getting to a doctor if you’re not already, and do it now.  There’s no reason to wait – why suffer any longer.  Medication will not cure you, but it will give you the strength to fight and make the changes you need to cure yourself. P.S.  I worked as a disc jockey in several "adult clubs" for quite a while, and I would highly discourage anyone from working in any similar atmosphere, especially as a dancer (or waitress, which inevitably leads to dancing.)  I have seen a lot of lives ruined and a lot of people come out of there with their perception of money, social behavior, male- female relationships and responsibility completely WHACKED (for lack of a better term.) Best wishes and keep on fighting Amos Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

No I wont go to that kind of life style. My head is just so screwed up right now I don’t know what to do or to think anymore, I think Im going NUTS! I want my old life back so much, I just cry and think all the time, and you know what…….after my husband left I have been so depressed I don’t have the thoughts or the energy to do  stupid rituals or obsess over hand washing and things . Well I obsess over my husband every second of the day! I even call him a 100 times a day and I think Im pushing him away even more so I must stop the calls right? Anyway no, I will find another job or even 2 jobs to get some income I will not bring myself to that level. Thanx, Boni

Response:

<~What kind of places would you go to? You sound like a good decent sweet person Kel so i would trust your thoughts on this one : ) Boni~> Awe well thank you ) Same to you. I actually met my boyfriend of 2 years (we plan on getting married eventually) at Dennys. hehe. I was sitting in the Non-Smoking section, and my eyes were drawn to the parking lot. And there he was. I knew right then i would be with him. He came in the door, and saw me right off and we bagan flirting with our eyes and smiles throughout the night. I went to use the phone, and he followed me to the bathroom, but i was too shy to say anything! Wah! Then i had to go. I was so disappointed. But then the next week i saw him there again. I was leaving as he was coming in. I left my pager number on his car ) He called me later that night and we talked, and decided to meet up at a concert 2 days later ) We hit it off and we’ve been together ever since. So honestly i don’t have any ‘good’ ideas for places to meet nice guys. I guess we all just filter through the losers till we find a good one! You’ll find one, mabye in the most unlikely place but you will ) Good luck!

Response:

This sounds so much like my own first experience that  I had to reply.  I married at 18 (H.S. sweetheart) and had my first at 20 (barely).  The divorce followed at around 22-23.  What you probably DON’T need is to jump right into another relationship.  Dating is one thing, a relationship is another.  Take some time to enjoy yourself and explore your independence some.  I am remarried now to a wonderful man.  I met him less than a year after my divorce and he quickly realized that I was rebounding.  I had never lived on my own or been without a steady boyfriend.  I went straight from home to wife/mother.  I moved to another state and gave myself some time to explore *me*.  I did things I had never done before and I did everything on my own terms.  No one to answer to. I even dating some.  I stayed in touch with this nice man I had met and even visited him a few times.  After 2 1/2 years, I moved back and we have been together ever since.  I honestly feel that if our relationship hadn’t meant to be that we would have both taken other paths during the time we were apart.  We had both agreed to date others.  I am not saying you have to be totally alone, but it sure helped me grow into a person I really like.  I am comfortable by myself and with myself.  I enjoy the solitude of being alone.   >I had my first child when I was 19. im now 25 >and I had never went out to have fun or party because my kids always >came first so I wouldnt have a clue to even begin to shop around for a >good honest guy…any ideas???? >What kind of places would you go to? You sound like a good decent sweet >person Kel so i would trust your thoughts on this one : )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thinking is the talking of the soul with itself. – Plato Get paid to surf the net….http://www.epipo.com/sine.asp?SCushway Tell them who sent you:  SCushway

Response:

I had my first child when I was 19. im now 25 and I had never went out to have fun or party because my kids always came first so I wouldnt have a clue to even begin to shop around for a good honest guy…any ideas???? What kind of places would you go to? You sound like a good decent sweet person Kel so i would trust your thoughts on this one : ) Boni

Response:

Bonnie Vojvodich <jbvojvod…@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:22238-378D84EE-89@newsd-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net… > I had my first child when I was 19. im now 25 > and I had never went out to have fun or party because my kids always > came first so I wouldnt have a clue to even begin to shop around for a > good honest guy…any ideas???? > What kind of places would you go to? You sound like a good decent sweet > person Kel so i would trust your thoughts on this one : ) > Boni

I’m not Kel but hopefully my 2 cents may also be useful. First up – keep your expectations realistic. The singles scene is a heartbreaking emotional merry-go-round that will make the way you feel now seem like paradise if you are not careful. Second – If you can afford it a counselor specialising in marriage and relationships can help work through the emotional issues related to your abandonment. Before you start shopping get an idea of what you are looking for. There are two points to consider and I’ll use the metaphor of buying a dress; what size am I and what looks good on me. Knowing your size is a matter of self analysis and figuring out who you are and how you work. There are lots of self help books on this subject so go grab a few and start reading up. When you have an idea of your size you need to think about what looks good on you. That is, what type of guy do you want. Again, the self help section of the book store will have titles galore here. I’ll recommend three titles; Uncoupling : Turning Points in Intimate Relationships / Diane Vaughan This deals with the whole process of becoming single again. It describes the processes nearly everyone goes through when a relationship ends and will help you as you progress through the phases of establishing a new identity as a single person. It will help you to decide what size you are as your shape will change dramatically over the next few months as you develop a new self image. 16 Ways to Love Your Lover / Otto Kroeger The 16 ways deals with the 16 Myers Briggs personality types and the ways they interact to form relationships. You can figure out your personality type at www.keirsey.com and then use this book to help understand both yourself and future partners. Developing a skill at picking other peoples types needs to be developed to make this useful. How to Make Anyone Fall in Love With You / Leil Lowndes This is a real piece of crap but essential reading to defend yourself against some of the head games guys may try and play. It deals with low level behavioural research on mating practices. It’s ugly reading for anyone with a conscience and I’m appalled that it was written by a woman. Understanding yourself and what you want is essential if you want to improve your chances of finding the right friend and partner. It won’t be easy. Some general advice – You have been in an intimate relationship for some time now. The immediate tendency is to become attached to someone just like your old mate with a likely possibility of a similar result. So many abused spouses repeat their mistake. Understanding yourself and what is good for you will help break the pattern and prevent this. Me first. Say it again. Me first. Think of your own needs first. You are looking for someone to give yourself to yes, but make sure they have what you need and are willing and able to give in return. Don’t let emotional neediness get the better of you and grab the first one that comes along. And don’t expect it to happen at once. Even though your husband was a slug you were emotionally attached to him and it will take time to create a similar attachment. Try and avoid the I want it all and I want it now syndrome. This can wreck a promising new love. Don’t sit and wait for it come to you. Approach men you like. This is the 90’s and it’s ok to ask a guy out. Actually, many men would appreciate it to know they are attractive especially the decent ones. Many of us nice guys find it hard having to play the role of predator. Some of us would prefer to be the catchee. Learn to say no. This goes with Me first. You can’t say yes to Mr Right unless you can say no to Mr Wrong. Ok, where to meet people? Real life is probably the best place. Join clubs where there are people with common interests. This can be hard when you have kids and are having problems just keeping your head together but it is a generally healthy thing to do. Failing this, singles bars! NOT! The occasional nice guy might be found there but not for long. We find it as oppressive as nice women do. Dating services. These come in various flavours. Some are like clubs and organise events such as dinners and parties. This is a good way to just mingle and meet new friends. It can also be stressful if you’re not into crowds. Others do smaller dinners for 4 to 6 people and the rest do 1 to 1 meetings. Again, this can be harrowing stuff if you are shy. Internet services. This is a good way to start. You get anonymity, safety and practice at introducing yourself. Try for penpals at first with no promises of comittment. You can chat with a few guys this way and gather info on what size you are and what fits. Believe me, you’ll be amazed at some of the losers that are out there so take it easy. I’ve found www.one-and-only.com to be good value. You can browse for free and only join if you see someone you like to write to. Placing an ad is free. www.match.com is also good but costs money even to place an ad. The single life is fraught with heartache and you’ll need to keep yourself strong to survive. The lady I met just recently didn’t work out and I’m back searching. Again, be careful. You’ve suffered a major disappointment so don’t let your fragile emotions be used against you. I’m sure others will add to what I’ve said, especially with other dating sites in the US, the only others I know are here in Australia. Regards, Trevor

Response:

<~I would just do anything to get my husband back with me.I think he has been cheating n me since the day he left now I really just want to DIE.~> No No No. He is the scum not you. You deserve someone to love you and be faithful in every way. Just got a bad apple. That doesen’t make you any less of a person. Just means you have some time to shop around for a fresher more tasty apple! ) I think the old one was rotten to the core!

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Ok here I am stuck to pay all the bills and total control over all, my husband wont help me at all! So how bad would it be to become a stripper until money is good again, then go to school and be something? My life sucks anyway…..so I might as well go to this. anyone out there have any thoughts on this. please don’t be mean….i cant take any put downs I know how degrading the job could be? Boni

Response:

not elligible for any benefits? (who is?  You have to be up for one heck of a fight to get them).  How does the dh feel about you stripping?  Would he rather you take off your clothes for other men than take some responsibility?  If so, take the job and lose him.  Don’t strip to support someone else.  Only do it to improve your own personal situation and only if you will be strong enough to walk away when it’s time.  I’ve seen too many get lulled into the quick, easy and abundant money from stripping.  It may be harder to take a different path, but then no one said like was easy.  At least you know you’ll still have your dignity intact. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thinking is the talking of the soul with itself. – Plato Get paid to surf the net….http://www.epipo.com/sine.asp?SCushway Tell them who sent you:  SCushway

Response:

Hi Bonnie. I hope you are not offended that I replied via e-mail. Your post was a real attention getter for me being a single male. (This is not a ` come on` by me, I am sincere). That type of dancing isn`t always degrading as I`ve seen it done tastefully.   It is reprehensible that your husband would shirk his responsibilities in that manner. I hope your children are not hurt by this. I suppose you can`t afford treatment for Ocd under your present circumstane which sucks. Your having had a lifetime of this illness is something I can relate to. A `normal life` may be just an illusion   but whatever it is I think I have been deprived of it because of Ocd. I`ve done behavioral therapy and currently take two types of medication which help. I know I`ll have this for the rest of my life which sucks. The Internet and newsgroups such as this have been the best therapy I`ve had so far. I don`t feel so isolated now that sympathetic people are just a few ` clicks` away. If you are curious about the dancing thing I can give you the website address of a really cool young woman who dances in Montreal, Canada and posts `tastefully` done nude photos on her site. She is French and isn`t real good with English but she answers  e-mail and may give you some good advice. Best wishes to you and your kids. E-mail me back if you want to, otherwise I`ll follow your progress in the newsgroup. BILL

Response:

The manner in which you’re asking us about this gives me the distinct impression that you really don’t want to resort to doing something like this. I don’t recommend doing it. Besides already lowering your self esteem even more (who needs it?) – the problem is you become accustomed to raking in that sort of cash and you will never get around to going to school. The money will *never* be that good so try not to get sucked into this if you can possibly avoid it. Good luck. PS- I will be your friend regardless of which decision you make but I strongly advise another career choice. Ida Bonnie Vojvodich wrote in message

<4737-378C1AA…@newsd-273.iap.bryant.webtv.net>… Ok here I am stuck to pay all the bills and total control over all, my husband wont help me at all! So how bad would it be to become a stripper until money is good again, then go to school and be something? My life sucks anyway…..so I might as well go to this. anyone out there have any thoughts on this. please don’t be mean….i cant take any put downs I know how degrading the job could be? Boni

Response:

<~The money will *never* be that good so try not to get sucked into this if you can possibly avoid it.~> My sentiments exactly. Once you start dancing and making that kind of money, and regular, respectable job won’t be enough. You won’t feel like you are getting anything out of it, knowing you could just go take your clothes off for some gross old guys and shake it a little and get 3 times as much. I highly discourage it. Its not good for the self-esteem. At all.

Response:

You are 100% right Kel…I must have been stupid to have even thought of a nasty job!!!! I would just do anything to get my husband back with me.I think he has been cheating n me since the day he left now I really just want to DIE.

Response:

Hi Bonnie, I agree with Ida and Kelley. I’d just like to add that your husband left you only two weeks ago and maybe it’s too early to be thinking about such an important decision. I know that you are feeling very depressed and that’s just the sort of time when people make decisions that sometimes they later regret. Is there nothing you can do to force your husband to fulfil his financial responsibilities? Is there anyone in his family that you can talk to about this? That would be my first action. My second action would be to fight like hell for some disability money from the government. Kind regards, Steve

Response:

Weekly FAQ

Question:

What about people’s opinions – That’s agaist the FAQ?

Response:

This guy Chuck is a fucking trip!

Response:

Re: Weekly FAQ This guy Chuck is a fucking trip!

He’s gonna warn you about using profanity, I think he’s the new leader of the ng.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -WEEKLY MINI-FAQ – updated 9/22/98 Welcome to alt.support.anxiety-panic: known as ASAP to its regulars ASAP also has a full FAQ overview of anxiety conditions, which is posted here monthly. If you would like a copy sooner it can be obtained via the WWW sites listed below. Meanwhile, this weekly mini-FAQ contains useful WWW addresses, general information plus a few hints and tips. Even if you skip the lists of essential URLs and other information, please take time to read the hints and tips at the end of this, before you start posting. ESSENTIAL URLs: Arthur Anderson’s WWW site contains an excellent dictionary of the terms you’ll see used here, as well as the renowned "Amusing Panics" collection and more.   The last address is new, it’s Arthur’s serach engine, which includes about 134 URLs with a cross section of anxiety-panic web sites in several countries. http://www.netaxs.com/people/aca3/AP.HTM http://www.netaxs.com/people/aca3/AD-ENG.HTM http://www.netaxs.com/people/aca3/ http://anxiety-panic.com Cathleen Henning has produced a very useful site with much information and comprehensive links. You can also find the ASAP FAQ there: http://panicdisorder.miningco.com/msub10.htm ——- The National Anxiety Foundation has a very promising site, covering both Panic Disorder and OCD. It’s well worth a look: http://lexington-on-line.com/naf.html ——- Regular ASAP contributor and founder of the Panic Disorders Institute, Dr. Stuart Shipko, has his own thought-provoking and stimulating site. Highly recommended: http://www.algy.com/pdi ——- The US National Panic and Anxiety Disorders newsletter can be found at: http://www.npadnews.com/ The Anxiety Disorders Association of America also has a site: http://www.adaa.org ——- Other valuable locations include the following: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/anxiety/ http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~abaillie/adfa.html http://www.mhsource.com/expert/consumer.html/#anxiety http://www.mentalhealth.com/ http://www.fairlite.com/ocd/medications http://www.MedsiteNavigator.com/drugs/drugs.html http://mindstreet.com/cbt.html http://anxietynetwork.com/hcbt.html WANT TO "MEET" OTHER ASAP PEOPLE FOR "LIVE" DISCUSSIONS ? ASAP has a regular and popular IRC channel, called #anx/pan, where people can ‘meet’ for realtime chat sessions. It runs every day on the Dalnet system, starting from 7pm East Coast USA time, midnight GMT. There are sessions at other times, to suit people in different time zones, currently including 6pm BST, 1pm EDT, on Sundays. Other times will be notified to this newsgroup as they occur. A complete guide to connecting to Dalnet, so that you can join the #anx/pan channel can be found at: http://www.skcldv.demon.co.uk/dalinf.htm AGORAPHOBIC? A complementary newsgroup, specially dedicated to discussing the problems faced by those with agoraphobia, has recently been formed. It’s called alt.support.agoraphobia HINTS AND TIPS It is best to read a newsgroup for a week or so before posting – especially if your comments might be controversial. Two topics particularly likely to cause trouble here are religion and the alleged addictive properties of benzodiazepine medications, such as Xanax. The convention on ASAP regarding religion is that preaching or exhorting others to follow any particular faith is not acceptable. It is fine to say that faith in X or Y has helped you individually, but *not* to suggest others follow your beliefs and especially not to quote religious works for the purposes of conversion. Regarding medication, it is extremely important that you check out previous postings on the subject (see below). The "addiction" issue has been exhausted several times over on this NG and detailed explanations of the medical difference between addiction and dependency have been posted on countless occasions. Please do *not* post inflamatory material on this subject. Read the earlier discussions. WANT TO DIP INTO OUR PAST? Most posts to ASAP are archived and can be invaluable sources of information about therapies, medications, symptoms etc. Posts can be accessed via:        and/or http://altavista.digital.com NEED TO POST ANONYMOUSLY? It is quite acceptable for posters to withold their identities if need be, provided, of course, they post sensibly. For information on anonymous servers, send e-mail to: message. UNSURE ABOUT NETIQUETTE? If you are completely new to newsgroups and want to find out the general dos and donts, the following site provides FAQs and guides: http://sunsite.unc.edu/usenet-i/

Response:

OCPD

Question:

Scientific research just published in the Journal of Usenet Medicine and Psychiatry (JUMP) has identified OCPD. OCPD is obsessive compulsive posting disorder. It is characterized by the following one or more of the following symptoms:      1. Frequent posting of messages containing flame bait      2. Repititious posting of similar messages      3. Posting of other’s messages which meet the criteria in either 1. or 2.      4. Plagiarizing articles      5. Lying to ISPs      6. Having multiple ISPs at the same time      7. Not paying your ISP. AND     4. Posting messages complaining that their messages are being cancelled when it is quite obvious that most people do not read their drivel or want them tocontinue to prove what a jerk they are. Remember, for people who have OCPD, a mind is a terrible thing to use. (No, I do not play a doctor on the internet, but I like to write about those who do.) Mark Probert LI, New York I will honor the privacy of email, and expect the same.

Response:

Boy Mark…you took your brat pills this morning.  :o) Fargo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Scientific research just published in the Journal of Usenet Medicine and Psychiatry (JUMP) has identified OCPD. OCPD is obsessive compulsive posting disorder. It is characterized by the following one or more of the following symptoms:     1. Frequent posting of messages containing flame bait     2. Repititious posting of similar messages     3. Posting of other’s messages which meet the criteria in either 1. or 2.     4. Plagiarizing articles     5. Lying to ISPs     6. Having multiple ISPs at the same time     7. Not paying your ISP. AND    4. Posting messages complaining that their messages are being cancelled when it is quite obvious that most people do not read their drivel or want them tocontinue to prove what a jerk they are. Remember, for people who have OCPD, a mind is a terrible thing to use. (No, I do not play a doctor on the internet, but I like to write about those who do.) Mark Probert LI, New York I will honor the privacy of email, and expect the same.

Response:

Gunshots

Question:

: :     How am I supposed to deal with my anxiety problems when there is : gunfire outside my house?  For the second straight week, the gangs out : here are opening fire on each other. Both times someone was hit. Last : time, a bullet went through my sister’s landlord’s front door. Today a : kid got hit in the leg and the police found the victim on my front : sidewalk.   Add to this the fact that my dad is moving out next weekend : losing.  Suggestions anyone? Hi Max, Sorry to hear the neighborhood is in such a mess. The worst I have here is kids setting off M80s and sometimes even more powerful explosives (makes me jolt rather than worry). I live about 10-blocks away from where the shooting starts, but still worry on occasions about a stray bullet comming through the window. I just keep a low profile (among the locals that is) and keep in mind that it’s statistically unlikely that I’d be killed by a stray bullet. Still a source of anxiety, I know, but try to keep the worry in perspective. Wish had more helpful advice.                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

Response:

   How am I supposed to deal with my anxiety problems when there is gunfire outside my house?  For the second straight week, the gangs out here are opening fire on each other. Both times someone was hit. Last time, a bullet went through my sister’s landlord’s front door. Today a kid got hit in the leg and the police found the victim on my front sidewalk.   Add to this the fact that my dad is moving out next weekend losing.  Suggestions anyone?

Max……this will be no help at all because I’ve never lived in a war zone like you and couldn’t begin to comprehend what it’s like to live like ….but I live in Kansas.  Haven’t locked a door or my car in 20 years.  I go for walks alone at midnight and have no fear.  Yeah, we have some crime, (somebody might drive off with your tractor) but nothing like other places. Point is, I STILL have anxiety and panic attacks.   Go figure! KC Cindy  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all:    How am I supposed to deal with my anxiety problems when there is gunfire outside my house?  For the second straight week, the gangs out here are opening fire on each other. Both times someone was hit. Last time, a bullet went through my sister’s landlord’s front door. Today a kid got hit in the leg and the police found the victim on my front sidewalk.   Add to this the fact that my dad is moving out next weekend losing.  Suggestions anyone?     Max Kohn                      http://shoga.wwa.com/~mik/nyx/nyx.htm          "We can only learn to love by loving"                              - Iris Murdoch

Yea i have a suggestion….go to your local police department, get a permit to carry, then go to the nearest gun shop, buy a nice .40 caliber or 45 and the next time they open up infront of your house SHOOT BACK!! I may have PA and GAD but I willbe damned if I let the gremlins in the streets get the best of me!

Response:

: : Yea i have a suggestion….go to your local police department, get a : permit to carry, then go to the nearest gun shop, buy a nice .40 : caliber or 45 and the next time they open up infront of your house : SHOOT BACK!! I may have PA and GAD but I willbe damned if I let the : gremlins in the streets get the best of me! Oh joy. I can see it now. An extra hour wait in the triage for us PD sufferers because the ER is busy with gunshot wounds.                                         – Arthur

Response:

Yea i have a suggestion….go to your local police department, get a permit to carry, then go to the nearest gun shop, buy a nice .40 caliber or 45

jeez! You have no idea what you are suggesting! Maybe you didn’t mean it as a bad thing….but….. You don’t know Max. You don’t know about his brother…. nope, that is not a good idea. Max….I know what you are going through. I came from Colombia for that reason. As I have said, 2 of my friends got killed in muggins,  1 was killed because he did not gave the right of way to a guy, 2 soldiers guarding my house died before my eyes in my front steps, ..etc etc… I fear guns. I fear the sound of gunshots, even at the movies. I feel for you ((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))

Response:

writes To all:    How am I supposed to deal with my anxiety problems when there is gunfire outside my house?  For the second straight week, the gangs out here are opening fire on each other. Both times someone was hit. Last time, a bullet went through my sister’s landlord’s front door. Today a kid got hit in the leg and the police found the victim on my front sidewalk.   Add to this the fact that my dad is moving out next weekend losing.  Suggestions anyone?

I know this is not of much help, but I have lived around Belfast N. Ireland most of my life and I suppose it’s a fact of human behaviour but you get used to it. In the early days it was frightening but as the months and years went by it became ‘normal’ if ever anything like what you are going through can be. Regards. — Mark

Response:

   How am I supposed to deal with my anxiety problems when there is gunfire outside my house?  For the second straight week, the gangs out here are opening fire on each other. Both times someone was hit. Last time, a bullet went through my sister’s landlord’s front door. Today a kid got hit in the leg and the police found the victim on my front sidewalk.   Add to this the fact that my dad is moving out next weekend losing.  Suggestions anyone? Yea i have a suggestion….go to your local police department, get a permit to carry, then go to the nearest gun shop, buy a nice .40 caliber or 45 and the next time they open up infront of your house SHOOT BACK!! I may have PA and GAD but I willbe damned if I let the gremlins in the streets get the best of me!

Considering my brother died when he accidentally shot himself in the head, I want no part of guns. Thanks, but no thanks.  BTW, he did this two years ago (approximate) IN FRONT OF MY SISTER AND HER 16 YR OLD DAUGHTER.   No, having a gun is NOT an option.        Max Kohn                      http://shoga.wwa.com/~mik/nyx/nyx.htm           "We can only learn to love by loving"                               – Iris Murdoch

Response:

Yea i have a suggestion….go to your local police department, get a permit to carry, then go to the nearest gun shop, buy a nice .40 caliber or 45 jeez! You have no idea what you are suggesting! Maybe you didn’t mean it as a bad thing….but….. You don’t know Max. You don’t know about his brother…. nope, that is not a good idea.

Rosita, is that you?  I don’t recognize your "handle"…..but I’ve been looking for you since the last known email addresses I had of you weren’t working anymore.   You are right and i wish he’d have looked at my web page BEFORE replying. *sigh* Max….I know what you are going through. I came from Colombia for that reason. As I have said, 2 of my friends got killed in muggins,  1 was killed because he did not gave the right of way to a guy, 2 soldiers guarding my house died before my eyes in my front  steps, ..etc etc… I fear guns. I fear the sound of gunshots, even at the movies. I feel for you ((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))

Thank you.  (((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))      Max Kohn                      http://shoga.wwa.com/~mik/nyx/nyx.htm           "We can only learn to love by loving"                               – Iris Murdoch

Response:

:  : Considering my brother died when he accidentally shot himself in the head, : I want no part of guns. Thanks, but no thanks.  BTW, he did this two years : ago (approximate) IN FRONT OF MY SISTER AND HER 16 YR OLD DAUGHTER.   No, : having a gun is NOT an option.   : : :      Max Kohn                      http://shoga.wwa.com/~mik/nyx/nyx.htm : : Max, I visited your memorial page and it is truly touching. I lost my mother this fall, and your letter is what I would write to her. I also have a friend who’s father accidently killed himself with a rifle in front of her. It is simply horrible. It may sound trite, but I believe that those you have left us can still "see" us, and I think that your page would surely put a smile on their faces. My Best, CW

Response:

Considering my brother died when he accidentally shot himself in the head, I want no part of guns. Thanks, but no thanks.  BTW, he did this two years ago (approximate) IN FRONT OF MY SISTER AND HER 16 YR OLD DAUGHTER. No, having a gun is NOT an option.   : I visited your memorial page and it is truly touching. I lost my mother this fall, and your letter is what I would write to her. I also have a friend who’s father accidently killed himself with a rifle in front of her. It is simply horrible.

Watching someone you love accidentally kill themselves before your very eyes is very traumatic. My niece is now 17 and has a lot of problems aggravated by being raped three times by my cousin’s husband shortly after she watched my brother accidentally shot himself…sometimes I don’t know how she’s still alive and hasn’t (God forbid!) commit suicide. I did watch my mom have a heart attack and pass away but it’s not as traumatic as watching someone shoot themselves.  Thanks for your kind words about my web page. I’m hoping to have images/pictures up there soon. It may sound trite, but I believe that those you have left us can still "see" us, and I think that your page would surely put a smile on their faces.

I also believe this so it’s not as trite as you may think.

Response:

Considering my brother died when he accidentally shot himself in the head, I want no part of guns.

I am sorry to hear that.

Response:

 To all:     How am I supposed to deal with my anxiety problems when there is gunfire outside my house?  For the second straight week, the gangs out here are opening fire on each other. Both times someone was hit. Last time, a bullet went through my sister’s landlord’s front door. Today a kid got hit in the leg and the police found the victim on my front sidewalk.   Add to this the fact that my dad is moving out next weekend losing.  Suggestions anyone?      Max Kohn                      http://shoga.wwa.com/~mik/nyx/nyx.htm           "We can only learn to love by loving"                               – Iris Murdoch

Response:

Move or by a gun.  Also, stay away from windows.  Can’t imagine living in a gang infested neighborhood.  I would have to increase my daily diazepam dosage that’s for sure.

Response:

Hi Max; I know what you are going through to a certain extent.  I lived in a driveby area for 11 years.  I don’t know if it was as bad as yours.  We saw shoot outs with the police at the gas station across the street twice in 6 months. I moved out.  I don’t know if that is an option for you.  Another thing I did to cope, was to wear earplugs – the squishy kind that you roll in your hands and then they unroll after you put them in your ears.  I wasn’t really afraid of being shot.  I just couldn’t stand the noise.  My heart goes out to you.                                 Kiesha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  To all:     How am I supposed to deal with my anxiety problems when there is gunfire outside my house?  For the second straight week, the gangs out here are opening fire on each other. Both times someone was hit. Last time, a bullet went through my sister’s landlord’s front door. Today a kid got hit in the leg and the police found the victim on my front sidewalk.   Add to this the fact that my dad is moving out next weekend losing.  Suggestions anyone?      Max Kohn                      http://shoga.wwa.com/~mik/nyx/nyx.htm           "We can only learn to love by loving"                               – Iris Murdoch

Response: