Please, need help coping?

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorders » Compulsive Disorder » Please, need help coping?

Question:

"Hassled Housepuppy" hass…@mailandnews.com wrote: >But, far more important to me right now, pray do tell, where can I get >reliable (and also genuinely impartial) advice as to how to resolve my >marriage and personal problems without (yet again) getting into the >(unwelcome and unwanted) drip-feed of masked or blatant religion or all the >usual "alternative" therapies?

Reliable? This is counsel, not a product warrantee program. Opinions, views and suggests are offered up to you, and then you decide for yourself whether what you read can be helpful to you. Sometimes, just a change of perspective is more useful than a change of circumstance. So you state your problem as best you can, listen to the feedback, and then as Floridanewbie suggested, take what’s useful and simply disregard the rest. CJ

Response:

>> Reliable? This is counsel, not a product warrantee program. >I think the OP means reliable as in better quality than tarot card >readings or Dionne Warwick’s psychic network.

I"d guess better than the former and i can"t comment about the latter

Response:

"Hassled Housepuppy" hass…@mailandnews.com wrote: >CJ >Thank you for your observations. You will see from my long missives with >floridanewbie that that is what I’m trying to achieve, but none of it has >worked well enough for me in the past.

It’s frankly hard to be helpful if you’re only giving out tidbits and pieces of what’s going on with you and your marriage. If you’re genuinely looking for advice, counsel, opinions, or even just a different perspective, it’s not going to come from us playing guessing games with what might or might not be your actual situation. So put it down in story form; narrate what’s been happening with your marriage and where you perceive the problem to be right now. But we frankly can’t say much of anything before this is done. It’s challenge enough to be helpful when folks are frank and candid. But it’s near impossible to say anything constructive or relivent without first hearing a good description of the situation. So lay it out. CJ

Response:

Thank you for your (eventual) good grace. From your opening comment about "troll", although I did not understand your previous comment about "honest spammer" at the time, it has become evident that I was somewhat misguided using the inappropriate phrase "Trolling around the search engines in desperation" – I’m afraid, pure ignorance on Internet phrases on my part, I can assure you – it seemed more apt than "surfing the search engines", but there you go, you learn by your mistakes all the time! Turning to matters of real relevance, and the elusive question of resolving marriage problems, I take on board your comment about a deja.com search. This is near to the heart of my problem. I have searched for solutions every which way I can think of around subjects like, for example, Addiction and alcohol abuse, Worry, Anxiety, Depression, Insecurity, Step-child problems/Turbulent and troubled teenagers, Low self-esteem, Poor communication, Unfounded fears and Excessively high materialistic expectations. Whilst there are hundreds of matches and threads on some of these (even 000’s in places), and I’ve looked at many, I’ve not really come up with any meaningful solutions. As you say, the solutions might be there but under obscure titles, and this makes it all the more difficult. And yes, I’ve been into, for example, the alt.depression groups, but found them altogether too offensive and aggressive to be constructive, so I’ve left them alone. In part, this is why I began to feel more comfortable in asm and really wanted to even contribute something. And yes, I had already put your advice into practice in going through the strings of comments, looking for ever more specific replies, in the hope of gleaning pieces I could apply. It is clear to me that many of the comments made by several regular contributors are extremely well intended, but I am not seeing the deep seated solutions that I really need, which is why I am trying to take the subjects much further. You suggest I provide some clues as to the problems that I face. The above list is a pretty good (but seriously understated) start. Consolation is that my wife and I are truly devoted and committed to each other, but there exists a long history of dealing with all of the above and much much more that spills over from these central problems. In truth, we are both at our wits end, with zero quality of life, and don’t know where to turn. This is what caught my eye in stumbling over the F W Consultancy thing. Anyone out there with practical experience of approaching them, or dealing with them? If I was really honest with myself, heart of hearts, I think I wanted George to try them, or someone else to come forward within asm and say they knew about them (in a positive experience sense), before having the courage to approach them myself. Deep down, I don’t really care dreadfully much about the credit card risk thing, or the (reasonable) cost of help, if I can get some genuine help. What caught my attention were phrases like, "solving marriage problems", "definitive solutions" and, of course, "No marriage need fail", all of which is what we want, but I had never heard of marriage consultancy before and didn’t know what to do. I take on board your point about "poor person" and "hugs", which is fine by me, and I don’t easily get offended by "home truths", but even after all the therapy and counseling we are still struggling with things that have dogged the marriage all along and I don’t know how to be rid of them. What we know we have to do is get past all the "buy more flowers/presents" or "have more sex/spark up your sex life" suggestions because all of these have proven as not being enough (even though they have helped a little). Before taking up your final suggestion, and setting out the specifics of the present troubles, I thought I would see what suggestions might be forthcoming for sorting out the long list of problems above. Whilst waiting, pray do tell, why do I need to use another name to set out a new thread? Thank you for your kind thoughts, and I’m certainly keen to "see what happens" Hassled Housepuppy floridanewbie <floridanew…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:3a003711.38271019@news.mindspring.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 14:23:36 -0000, "Hassled Housepuppy" > <hass…@mailandnews.com> wrote: > Hiya Housepuppy, > Welcome to alt.support.marriage (asm) > Thank you for your long, thoughtful post to my ever cynical remarks. > While in previous posts I allowed you might not be a spamming troll, > my suspicions remained until your recent reply. At this stage I can > see you are looking for information and help … I apologize if my > previous remarks made you feel even worse. > You ask where the help and/or reading suggestions are for your > problems … fair enough. First though, you have to provide some > clues as to what problems you face or would like to resolve. Some > might suggest you do a deja.com search on a specific asm topic since > almost everything has been convered here at one time or another but > the deja.com archives are falling apart and besides, some of the best > stuff is not under subject titles that are obvious. > <snip> > >Where does that leave me? Ah, yes! Newsgroup recommended reading, or was > >that Newsgroup’s favoured Spammed reading? You say that several publications > >are regularly recommended. Pardon me for trying, but I can’t remember seeing > >one on solving my marriage issues. Pray tell me exactly where to look? > >Before opening my mouth this time, I’ve been back and had another look, but > >can’t see what you’re referring to, specifically. Perhaps you can be more > >specific – titles, authors, what their qualifications are, who owns them and > >who backs their knowledge, why I should trust them, why I should trust your > >judgement over any such otherwise unknown (to me) source, why I should be > >prepared to get my credit card out for them – all that sort of thing might > >be real supportive and helpful. > You say you had been lurking before finally posting to George … > while reading all those other posts didn’t you notice that when people > lay out a problem or situation, others make suggestions which may be > helpful? In fact, in the threads where the original poster comes > back to add information or clarify something, the suggestions > generally become more and more concrete…. that is until the thread > veers off into left field as often happens with loooong threads > <snip> > >Problem for me is, with more trouble brewing at home, I need some real help > >right now but you’ve instilled doubts in my mind too. > Good, you are not gullible <grin> > Around Usenet, there is an old saying to take what you can use and > leave the rest. When you come to a public support group, you may > hear things you do not like. This is not one of those groups where > people tell you "poor person … {{{{hugs}}}}" … on the other hand, > sometimes all it takes is one or two solid suggestions to get a person > to consider something they just had not thought about. > Why not give the folks around here a crack at your problem … lay out > what trouble is brewing and see what happens. You may get nothing of > value but there is always the chance something will click. Keep in > mind, most people here are ordinary folks … even those with training > in counseling and therapy are here as regular folks. I have no > training in this stuff … consider me to be akin to a pet rock. > <snip> > >Perhaps you can resolve that dilemma for me, as well. If you can tell me > >exactly how I can sort out my marriage, or what books I can buy off the > >shelf that will tell me exactly what to do, or which ones to get out of the > >Library or Newsgroup, I’ll be eternally grateful. If not, I’ll send the > >e-mail and be damned, and let you know if and when they reply if you’re > >genuinely interested in being constructive about other people’s problems. > >In the meantime, how about giving some genuine marriage support with some > >RELIABLE recommended reading, instead of serving me unsettling and unnerving > >platitudes and accusations? > Start a new thread, either using your housepuppy name or another one > … let’s see what happens. > Regardless, I do hope you are able to solve the problems you face. > Floridanewbie

Response:

On Fri, 3 Nov 2000 14:58:41 -0000, "Hassled Housepuppy" <hass…@mailandnews.com> wrote:

<snip> >Turning to matters of real relevance, and the elusive question of resolving >marriage problems, I take on board your comment about a deja.com search. >This is near to the heart of my problem. I have searched for solutions every >which way I can think of around subjects like, for example, Addiction and >alcohol abuse, Worry, Anxiety, Depression, Insecurity, Step-child >problems/Turbulent and troubled teenagers, Low self-esteem, Poor >communication, Unfounded fears and Excessively high materialistic >expectations.

<snip> Other than an addiction to porn you have hit on about every ill a relationship might encounter over a lifetime … yet I guess all this is going on at once in your life… that is quite a burden. I don’t think a single book is going to help unless you can focus on your most immediate problems or at least break them down into discrete entities. Are you the one with the addictions, depression and insecurities? Have you had a complete physical by your doctor? Is professional counseling (individual, family or marriage) out of the question? >The above list is a pretty good (but seriously understated) start. >Consolation is that my wife and I are truly devoted and committed to each >other, but there exists a long history of dealing with all of the above and >much much more that spills over from these central problems. In truth, we >are both at our wits end, with zero quality of life, and don’t know where to >turn. This is what caught my eye in stumbling over the F W Consultancy >thing. >Anyone out there with practical experience of approaching them, or dealing >with them?

Are you talking about problems with your children? If so, how old are they and what has transpired to bring you to your wits end? >If I was really honest with myself, heart of hearts, I think I wanted George >to try them, or someone else to come forward within asm and say they knew >about them (in a positive experience sense), before having the courage to >approach them myself. >Deep down, I don’t really care dreadfully much about the credit card risk >thing, or the (reasonable) cost of help, if I can get some genuine help. >What caught my attention were phrases like, "solving marriage problems", >"definitive solutions" and, of course, "No marriage need fail", all of which >is what we want, but I had never heard of marriage consultancy before and >didn’t know what to do.

Some people think highly of Michele Weiner-Davis (although some think she is useless but that is true of all therapists): http://www.weiner-davis.com/ Others think very highly of Willard Harley, Jr: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ Here is a site that some claim saved their faltering marriages: Retrouvaille … a Lifeline for Married Couples A Program to Help Couples Heal and Renew their own Marriage Relationship. http://www.retrouvaille.org/ If you have been following the group long, you may have seen the recommendation to read David Schnarch’s book "Passionate Marriage" or books by John Gottman: Why Marriages Succeed or Fail The Seven Principles For Making Marriage Work >Before taking up your final suggestion, and setting out the specifics of the >present troubles, I thought I would see what suggestions might be >forthcoming for sorting out the long list of problems above.

Without something a bit more concrete, I’m not certain you will get much of a response. I’ve tossed out a few ideas to see if they might serve as a catalyst for discussion but we may be talking in circles … which, at times, is something at which I excel >Whilst waiting, pray do tell, why do I need to use another name to set out a >new thread?

Absolutely no need to do either but if you felt the Hassled Housepuppy name had been tainted with the "troll" label, it would be easy enough to come back under a fresh name. I don’t think that is a problem now that you have explained your newness to Usenet newsgroups and the peculiar terminology we sometimes take for granted. As for starting a new thread, it might help to get folks focused specifically on the matters you would like to discuss … when you tag onto an existing thread, there is a risk people have lost interest in the thread and thus are no longer reading new posts that may come in. Floridanewbie

Response:

CJ Thank you for your observations. You will see from my long missives with floridanewbie that that is what I’m trying to achieve, but none of it has worked well enough for me in the past. Hassled Housepuppy CJMorgan59 <cjmorga…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20001101175735.18152.00000067@ng-fr1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Hassled Housepuppy" hass…@mailandnews.com wrote: > >But, far more important to me right now, pray do tell, where can I get > >reliable (and also genuinely impartial) advice as to how to resolve my > >marriage and personal problems without (yet again) getting into the > >(unwelcome and unwanted) drip-feed of masked or blatant religion or all the > >usual "alternative" therapies? > Reliable? This is counsel, not a product warrantee program. Opinions, views and > suggests are offered up to you, and then you decide for yourself whether what > you read can be helpful to you. Sometimes, just a change of perspective is more > useful than a change of circumstance. > So you state your problem as best you can, listen to the feedback, and then as > Floridanewbie suggested, take what’s useful and simply disregard the rest. > CJ

Response:

Gidget Being somewhat of a novice at all of this, and having made a fool of myself already over the misuse of the word "trolling", could you please explain OP and MMOB. By the way, can anybody point me at a glossary of Newsgroup terms? Hassled Housepuppy Gidget <gidgetoli…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:MPG.146a70b3d078323b98990b@news… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <20001101175735.18152.00000…@ng-fr1.aol.com>, > cjmorga…@aol.com says… > > Reliable? This is counsel, not a product warrantee program. > I think the OP means reliable as in better quality than tarot card > readings or Dionne Warwick’s psychic network. > Ok, I’ll MMOB now. :)

Response:

George You certainly seem to have your share of problems, many of which I can identify with through a lifetime of painful experiences of my own After years of desperate trouble, and trying every form of counseling, therapy and analysis under the sun to no avail, I seem to have hit on some help that might make sense for you Trolling around the Search Engines in desperation one day, I happened upon a statement ‘No Marriage Need Fail’ and thought this absolutely had to be the usual complete Bull****. Turns out it was some organization giving "expert" advice on solving marriage problems. At my wits end at the time, it seemed worth a closer look It seems I have been looking for help in all the wrong places. They say that counseling doesn’t really ever set out to solve problems, and therapy and analysis is something altogether different, but what they say they provide is "Consultancy advice". Never heard of that sort of help for marriage before, but apparently it exists and it’s a consultant’s job to sort you out an actual solution to problems like this and not a counselor. I haven’t actually tried them yet, ‘cos things have quietened down at home for me, but give it a look. If you want to save your marriage, they say they will tell you how. It’s at www.fwconsultancy.com Best of luck, and don’t give up on what you want! george <geo…@where.com> wrote in message

news:aOOH5.9100$Tl6.67508@news4.atl… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all. New to the group. Hope it won’t have to become a habit. This is > going to be a little long and complicated. Sorry to tell my life story, but > can’t tell this any other way. > Background: > I am 42 years old. My wife is 43. I am catholic(non-practicing), she is > Jewish (ditto). She is originally from California, I’m from Kentucky. We > live in Louisville, where I was raised. She considers Kentucky to be her > home. We are both Professional Geologists, and met in College. But we > didn’t start dating in earnest until after we both started working for the > same consulting firm. We both had bad experiences with the firm, and left > it together. We decided to try to start our own company (I know, don’t work > with a loved one or spouse – never was a problem, though). She has two > girls (women): (No children from our marriage). One is currently > twenty-two, the other is twenty. I have almost always gotten along with the > oldest, in fact we are very close. She has a little boy who is six years > old (she got pregnant two months before the wife and I got married). The > youngest one, though, has never accepted me. She has been diagnosed with > schizopreniform psychosis (at the age of 17). > Diggression – this girl has been a living nightmare for the both of us. > Quit school (blames us for her quitting). She once kicked me in the face, > cusses me out all the time, ran away twice, was mixed up with a really bad > bunch of drug addicts and criminals, took my new (at the time) car for a joy > ride before she was old enough to get a license and nearly totalled it. > Fortunately, nobody got hurt. She tried to commit suicide twice. Both times > with drugs. Finally, my wife had to kick her out. The first time was > before she turned 18. Then I kicked her out after she turned 18 (trashed > the house in a party while we were away – her FRIENDS stole my computer, > cameras, and other things. She has broken the back door, and at least five > windows in the house, and busted holes in the walls. I spend most of my > free time fixing things. All in all, between my wife and I, she had to move > out at least five times. She has been in trouble with the law. We tried to > get some serious help for her, through the courts (what a joke), and finally > after her last suicide attempt (when she got her diagnosis). She was put on > medication, which seemed to help her along with the therapy. But she quit > taking the medicine and therapy after she turned 18. Then she decided to > move back to California (to get away from us Kentucky hicks). She tried to > live with her grandparents – they kicked her out too. Then with her two > aunts. No good. She lived from day to day (we think she hooked some of the > time), in flop houses, and occassionally with men and other girls, until > they couldn’t stand it any longer and kicked her out. Anyway, this went on > for over a year. > Then, last March, my wife suddenly anounced that daughter #2 was coming > home. I tried to get along, even tried to reconcile with her. Same old > story. She began working at strip joints as a dancer. I had to kick her > out again because she refused to respect our wishes and not do drugs, > especially in our home. She came back two weeks later, and started it all > over again. I had to kick her out again. After another two weeks, two of > her friends came over and told me that she was pregnant. Terrific! Well, I > for one thought she needed to come home, whatever her problems, she was > going to have a child and was going to need all the help she could get. My > wife agreed, and so she came home. Things were pretty good for a while – she > quit smoking, and doing drugs (I really worry about the child, though). > Things settled down some. > Then in July, took my wife, oldest step-daughter, and step-grandchild to > Kings Island (youngest one didn’t go, she had to work, she says). Had a > great time. Bought the youngest one a tee-shirt. Gave it to her the next > morning, she thanked me, then proceeded into a tirade because she had bought > a loaf of bread and someone had eaten some of it (Come on! Really). I > explained that I had made breakfast for everyone, and we didn’t have any > other bread, and that I would buy her another loaf. She proceeded to curse > at me and everyone else, and yelled at the grandchild. I had had enough, I > tried to give her five dollars for the bread, and she smacked it out of my > hand, cursed at me some more. I asked her to leave, and turned and she hit > me in the back of the head with a hard shoe. I got furious, and tried to go > after her (I might have hit her, if my wife hadn’t intervened – she was in > the bathroom through all of this). I know – my getting angry was the worst > thing I could have done. My wife decided that she wanted a divorce. Said > she didn’t love me anymore. We talked through all of our emotions, and did > not make the leap. The daughter came home that evening. Next two weeks > were hard for us all. But things cooled down > Meat of the problem: > My wife and I have been passionately in love with each other since we first > started dating. She is my soulmate. We try to share as much of the burdens > as we can. I have tried to be as supportive of her and her children as any > step-father can. She is a saint. She moved here from California during the > recession of 1981, she says because there was more work here than there > (even though I know we had 11% unemplyment at the time). Anyway, she worked > and went to school and raised her two daughters on her own. It was very > hard for her. Which, I think is partially why she married me. I know this, > but I wanted to help her, and make her life and their lives better, and > easier. > It has been very hard, and has really stressed our relationship. For the > past two months, she has become increasingly distant. Although we were > still having sex – great sex, always (never with great frequency, however – > I’ll take it when I can get it), she was increasingly wanting more time to > herself. Then, when I got a dsl hook up, she became obssessed with being > on-line – can’t blame her there, its awesome! However, she was coming home, > going on-line, and staying on-line until it was time to go to work the next > morning. I’m laying there in bed all night waiting for her to come up. > I’m an insomniac, so I can understand the obssession she was having with the > internet. I usually get on-line or otherwise work on the computer until 2-3 > in the morning about once to three times a week. But she was doing this > every single night for weeks, and staying up all night. I knew that with > her it was more than an addiciton, she was avoiding me, although we were > generally talking fine. There’s more. She has obssessive-compulsive > disorder, as does her sister. She has been going to a psychiatrist for a > couple of years. She has been seeing a therapist for at least five months. > Her sister has it worse than she does, at least until now. All the time she > was staying up all night I knew, or suspected, that she was contemplating > leaving me. She has said several times over the last year that she wanted > to be alone. She was in a way, pushing me and her children (but not the > grandchild) away from her. She asked for space. I gave it to her, as much > as she wanted, and didn’t push the issue. > Then a month ago, I went out of town for a week. When I returned, she was > back on the computer. I tried to talk to her about her problems, but she > was so cold about it all. She said she didn’t miss me while I was gone, and > thought it would be best if we got a divorce. We talked about it, and she > said that we should see a therapist. She said it would help my transition. > Like a jerk, I said "what’s the point, you’ve already made up your mind?! > We talked some more, and I told her that if she thought it would help, we > could go. That night she sat at the computer, while I laid in bed awake. > The next day, with the grandchild in the livingroom, the two daughters got > into a really bad catfight over a $2 daytimer (they do not get along > either-youngest totally resents the oldest, oldest can’t stand of the > youngest). I calmly stepped between the two, and asked the oldest to take > her little boy (my buddy) and go home (I was totally concerned for his > emotional and possibly physical wellbeing at this point). My wife asked the > youngest to leave. She

Response:

On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 14:23:36 -0000, "Hassled Housepuppy" <hass…@mailandnews.com> wrote:

Hiya Housepuppy, Welcome to alt.support.marriage (asm) Thank you for your long, thoughtful post to my ever cynical remarks. While in previous posts I allowed you might not be a spamming troll, my suspicions remained until your recent reply. At this stage I can see you are looking for information and help … I apologize if my previous remarks made you feel even worse. You ask where the help and/or reading suggestions are for your problems … fair enough. First though, you have to provide some clues as to what problems you face or would like to resolve. Some might suggest you do a deja.com search on a specific asm topic since almost everything has been convered here at one time or another but the deja.com archives are falling apart and besides, some of the best stuff is not under subject titles that are obvious. <snip> >Where does that leave me? Ah, yes! Newsgroup recommended reading, or was >that Newsgroup’s favoured Spammed reading? You say that several publications >are regularly recommended. Pardon me for trying, but I can’t remember seeing >one on solving my marriage issues. Pray tell me exactly where to look? >Before opening my mouth this time, I’ve been back and had another look, but >can’t see what you’re referring to, specifically. Perhaps you can be more >specific – titles, authors, what their qualifications are, who owns them and >who backs their knowledge, why I should trust them, why I should trust your >judgement over any such otherwise unknown (to me) source, why I should be >prepared to get my credit card out for them – all that sort of thing might >be real supportive and helpful.

You say you had been lurking before finally posting to George … while reading all those other posts didn’t you notice that when people lay out a problem or situation, others make suggestions which may be helpful? In fact, in the threads where the original poster comes back to add information or clarify something, the suggestions generally become more and more concrete…. that is until the thread veers off into left field as often happens with loooong threads <snip> >Problem for me is, with more trouble brewing at home, I need some real help >right now but you’ve instilled doubts in my mind too.

Good, you are not gullible <grin> Around Usenet, there is an old saying to take what you can use and leave the rest. When you come to a public support group, you may hear things you do not like. This is not one of those groups where people tell you "poor person … {{{{hugs}}}}" … on the other hand, sometimes all it takes is one or two solid suggestions to get a person to consider something they just had not thought about. Why not give the folks around here a crack at your problem … lay out what trouble is brewing and see what happens. You may get nothing of value but there is always the chance something will click. Keep in mind, most people here are ordinary folks … even those with training in counseling and therapy are here as regular folks. I have no training in this stuff … consider me to be akin to a pet rock. <snip> >Perhaps you can resolve that dilemma for me, as well. If you can tell me >exactly how I can sort out my marriage, or what books I can buy off the >shelf that will tell me exactly what to do, or which ones to get out of the >Library or Newsgroup, I’ll be eternally grateful. If not, I’ll send the >e-mail and be damned, and let you know if and when they reply if you’re >genuinely interested in being constructive about other people’s problems. >In the meantime, how about giving some genuine marriage support with some >RELIABLE recommended reading, instead of serving me unsettling and unnerving >platitudes and accusations?

Start a new thread, either using your housepuppy name or another one … let’s see what happens. Regardless, I do hope you are able to solve the problems you face. Floridanewbie

Response:

CJ Taking your observations to be sincere, and not merely sarcastic, thank you very much for your sympathy. I feel much better now knowing that I have been missing out on "some of the best available advice for free" all my life. Do tell, where did I go wrong? But, far more important to me right now, pray do tell, where can I get reliable (and also genuinely impartial) advice as to how to resolve my marriage and personal problems without (yet again) getting into the (unwelcome and unwanted) drip-feed of masked or blatant religion or all the usual "alternative" therapies? I would love to know! Please let me in on the secret. Hassled Housepuppy CJMorgan59 <cjmorga…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20001024182405.04914.00000614@ng-fz1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Hassled Housepuppy" hass…@mailandnews.com wrote: > >Out of all of my dreadful personal experiences, I have learnt two very > >expensive lessons. > >The first is that if its offered for free, it probably isn’t worth diddly > squat. > Some of life’s best advise is just there for the asking. Sorry to hear you’ve > never come across it. > CJ

Response:

"Hassled Housepuppy" hass…@mailandnews.com wrote: >Out of all of my dreadful personal experiences, I have learnt two very >expensive lessons. >The first is that if its offered for free, it probably isn’t worth diddly

squat. Some of life’s best advise is just there for the asking. Sorry to hear you’ve never come across it. CJ

Response:

Floridanewbie Responding to your understandable cynicism of all that appears on offer on the Internet, I have moved your suggestions along. First of all, I can’t help it whether you believe me or not, but I have nothing to sell, or Spam, to this Newsgroup – unless you want to go into the gardening business, so I have no sales to report. Next, you accuse me of nefariousness, because I haven’t posted to alt.support.marriage before. Well, surprize, surprize, I came new to this group very recently for exactly that – "support.marriage", yes, support with my marriage troubles, but I don’t see a lot of that going around, not really and certainly not from you. More like, on my experiences of the Newsgroup so far, "Well if this Newsgroup is the best I can turn to, I might as well give up my marriage right now". Why haven’t I posted before? Are you ready for another surprize? Just like you, I’m suspicious too! I believe in looking around a bit before making myself known – or making myself look foolish. Been there, done that, got the tea-shirt in the Chat-rooms, thank you very much. But, silly me too, George’s plight struck a cord with my own experiences, but I wish I hadn’t bothered to try and make a contribution to him or the Newsgroup – But I probably won’t bother again, and I don’t see a lot of marriage support in that either. Where does that leave me? Ah! The wonderful wonders of the Library and all those reliable books on solving marriage trouble just waiting to be plucked off the shelf! Putting the semantics of "free" or not to one side as apparently not the real issue with you, I wholeheartedly agree with what you say about it being nice to see and assess a book before you buy – my sentiments entirely – applies to a lot of other things as well, but it isn’t always possible and it didn’t work for me in marriage at any rate. Taking your point to heart, however, I did as you inspired and went along to the local Library and asked whether they could point me to any publications that would actually tell me how to solve my marriage and personal problems in specific terms – guess what, yes, life is full of surprizes, I came out empty handed, after an hour and a half – what a surprize! Not much help there then, unless you can tell me which publications you found to be genuine on my subject of interest? Where does that leave me? Ah, yes! Newsgroup recommended reading, or was that Newsgroup’s favoured Spammed reading? You say that several publications are regularly recommended. Pardon me for trying, but I can’t remember seeing one on solving my marriage issues. Pray tell me exactly where to look? Before opening my mouth this time, I’ve been back and had another look, but can’t see what you’re referring to, specifically. Perhaps you can be more specific – titles, authors, what their qualifications are, who owns them and who backs their knowledge, why I should trust them, why I should trust your judgement over any such otherwise unknown (to me) source, why I should be prepared to get my credit card out for them – all that sort of thing might be real supportive and helpful. Then there’s the F W Consultancy. I’ve been back and had another look at their site, too. I take on board your point about not knowing them – me either – and that they don’t say who backs them or why they should be trusted, but at least they have an address and telephone and fax numbers to refer to which is more than many sites offer when (or if) they’ve really got something to hide. Perhaps we should be paranoid because they’re an English site, and not American? Perhaps we should be paranoid, just because they’re on the Internet in the first place? They also show up as top rating in several search engines for Marriage Consultancy – if that is supposed to mean anything – with the rest only as glorified dating agencies – or does that confirm they are con people in your mind? Problem for me is, with more trouble brewing at home, I need some real help right now but you’ve instilled doubts in my mind too. I’ve drafted an e-mail to them, conveying all the fears and phobias about unknown organisations and Newsgroups, and asking them what assurances they can give about trusting them, but I’m in two minds to send it or not. What if they bite back – tell me I’m a fool if I think I am going to get anything worthwhile from them? What if they appear genuine? What if they actually offer something I actually want, or need? Is this group alt.support.marriage, or the knock the poor b****rd whilst he’s down group? Perhaps you can resolve that dilemma for me, as well. If you can tell me exactly how I can sort out my marriage, or what books I can buy off the shelf that will tell me exactly what to do, or which ones to get out of the Library or Newsgroup, I’ll be eternally grateful. If not, I’ll send the e-mail and be damned, and let you know if and when they reply if you’re genuinely interested in being constructive about other people’s problems. In the meantime, how about giving some genuine marriage support with some RELIABLE recommended reading, instead of serving me unsettling and unnerving platitudes and accusations? floridanewbie <floridanew…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:39f5d1f4.164036014@news.mindspring.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:31:09 +0100, "Hassled Housepuppy" > <hass…@mailandnews.com> wrote: > >Accuse all you will, it seemed that George wanted some help and my apologies > >for bothering at all. > >As a fellow problem-marriage sufferer, I ask, "What’s he supposed to do?" Is > >he supposed to decide that his marriage is not worth $15? Why is everything > >and everyone total crap if they don’t give everything away for free? In my > >experience, you’re lucky if you get what you pay for, let alone worry about > >the freebies. > <snip> > Give away for free? What did you read? I wrote: > > My advice … head for your nearest library or bookstore … do not > > waste time on this unknown site being promoted by a spammer. > Neither bookstores nor libraries give stuff away for free, at least > not in the US. My real estate taxes support my public library. My > university tuition and alumni contributions support my academic > library access. My bookstores expect me to hand over cash before I > can trot out with their books. > Perhaps you are a well-intentioned person who would never stoop to > spamming but it is interesting you come to the group without ever > having posted before, at least not that I recall, and suggest a site > that gives absolutely zero information about itself other than the > titles of some stuff it wants to sell. For all I know those titles > could be a few sheets of paper stapled together, plagerized from other > sources, assuming the buyer gets anything at all once giving out > his/her credit card number. > I use libraries heavily to see if trees have died in vain … there is > a LOT of crap published. If I find a keeper in the library, I then > buy it for myself… sometimes I buy multiple copies and give them > away as gifts to others. > In this group there are several books people recommend time and time > again … those titles are also something worth reading and/or buying. > Have you looked at any of the books others have suggested here? > <snip> > >You advise going to the nearest library or bookstore, so what’s he going to > >buy and by whom? Who else do you know that claims to provide expert > >solutions to marriage problems, let alone provide them for free? Is he > >supposed to reject some organization just because you haven’t heard of them? > >Since when has a Consultancy been allowed to deliver garbage and get away > >with it? > Yeah .. there you go … put a title on your web site and now you are > a reputable, legitimate business … silly me! I can be so cynical > and suspicious … > If businesses can find enough people to send them money just once, > they can stay in business for a long time. Have you not noticed this? > > Why are we so interested in their Terms and Conditions? It would be > >a pretty crap service if they did not have that information stipulated > >somewhere. Why can’t George be allowed to make up his own mind? > I suggested others would be better advised to use places where they > could see the actual publications and judge for themselves if the > thing looked like it was worth the time and/or money. You seem to > believe they should buy sight unseen … I could find nothing on that > web site that gave me any useful information; did I miss a hidden web > page that only appears for "true believers?" > People should make up their own mind … let us know if you got a lot > of orders after you posted your site here. > Floridanewbie, eternally suspcious

Response:

On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:31:09 +0100, "Hassled Housepuppy" <hass…@mailandnews.com> wrote: >Accuse all you will, it seemed that George wanted some help and my apologies >for bothering at all. >As a fellow problem-marriage sufferer, I ask, "What’s he supposed to do?" Is >he supposed to decide that his marriage is not worth $15? Why is everything >and everyone total crap if they don’t give everything away for free? In my >experience, you’re lucky if you get what you pay for, let alone worry about >the freebies.

<snip> Give away for free? What did you read? I wrote: > My advice … head for your nearest library or bookstore … do not > waste time on this unknown site being promoted by a spammer.

Neither bookstores nor libraries give stuff away for free, at least not in the US. My real estate taxes support my public library. My university tuition and alumni contributions support my academic library access. My bookstores expect me to hand over cash before I can trot out with their books. Perhaps you are a well-intentioned person who would never stoop to spamming but it is interesting you come to the group without ever having posted before, at least not that I recall, and suggest a site that gives absolutely zero information about itself other than the titles of some stuff it wants to sell. For all I know those titles could be a few sheets of paper stapled together, plagerized from other sources, assuming the buyer gets anything at all once giving out his/her credit card number. I use libraries heavily to see if trees have died in vain … there is a LOT of crap published. If I find a keeper in the library, I then buy it for myself… sometimes I buy multiple copies and give them away as gifts to others. In this group there are several books people recommend time and time again … those titles are also something worth reading and/or buying. Have you looked at any of the books others have suggested here? <snip> >You advise going to the nearest library or bookstore, so what’s he going to >buy and by whom? Who else do you know that claims to provide expert >solutions to marriage problems, let alone provide them for free? Is he >supposed to reject some organization just because you haven’t heard of them? >Since when has a Consultancy been allowed to deliver garbage and get away >with it?

Yeah .. there you go … put a title on your web site and now you are a reputable, legitimate business … silly me! I can be so cynical and suspicious … If businesses can find enough people to send them money just once, they can stay in business for a long time. Have you not noticed this? > Why are we so interested in their Terms and Conditions? It would be >a pretty crap service if they did not have that information stipulated >somewhere. Why can’t George be allowed to make up his own mind?

I suggested others would be better advised to use places where they could see the actual publications and judge for themselves if the thing looked like it was worth the time and/or money. You seem to believe they should buy sight unseen … I could find nothing on that web site that gave me any useful information; did I miss a hidden web page that only appears for "true believers?" People should make up their own mind … let us know if you got a lot of orders after you posted your site here. Floridanewbie, eternally suspcious

Response:

Accuse all you will, it seemed that George wanted some help and my apologies for bothering at all. As a fellow problem-marriage sufferer, I ask, "What’s he supposed to do?" Is he supposed to decide that his marriage is not worth $15? Why is everything and everyone total crap if they don’t give everything away for free? In my experience, you’re lucky if you get what you pay for, let alone worry about the freebies. Out of all of my dreadful personal experiences, I have learnt two very expensive lessons. The first is that if its offered for free, it probably isn’t worth diddly squat. The second is that I have paid out $000’s and $000’s on, so called, counseling that never helped my family or me a jot You advise going to the nearest library or bookstore, so what’s he going to buy and by whom? Who else do you know that claims to provide expert solutions to marriage problems, let alone provide them for free? Is he supposed to reject some organization just because you haven’t heard of them? Since when has a Consultancy been allowed to deliver garbage and get away with it? Why are we so interested in their Terms and Conditions? It would be a pretty crap service if they did not have that information stipulated somewhere. Why can’t George be allowed to make up his own mind? floridanewbie <floridanew…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:39f43c55.60181436@news.mindspring.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:16:40 +0100, "Hassled Housepuppy" > <hass…@mailandnews.com> wrote: > <snip> > >Trolling around the Search Engines in desperation one day, > ^^^^^^ > <snip> > Wow, an honest spammer!!!!! Trolling, trolling, la dee dah > <snip> > >I haven’t actually tried them yet, ‘cos things have quietened down at home > >for me, but give it a look. If you want to save your marriage, they say they > >will tell you how. It’s at www.fwconsultancy.com > <snip> > OK, let’s not be closed minded … Let’s see what is on the site. Oh > damn … what a surprise … give us your credit card number and we, > an unknown outfit, will send you a special report … not a drop of > useful information without giving them money. > ================================================= > <Quoted From That Site> > Before ordering, you should satisfy yourself regarding Terms and > Conditions, which also provide details about the use of credit cards > Ordering a copy of a specialist Consultancy publication could not be > simpler > To order on-line, click on a publication title below and you will be > transferred to an order page on our administration site at > friendlyways.com > If you order on-line you will be awarded 5 epoints for every