in pack aggression

Question:

HOWEDY matty,

Jim said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior: Has anyone seen this behavior before and can anyone explain it or know how to stop it? It’s best to first check for physical problems

Like owner abuse, matty? which may be causing the behaviour.

Mishandling is ALWAYS the CAUSE of BAD BEHAVIOR. See your vet and please let us know the result.

You’re a lying dog abusing mental case, matty. You KNOW aggression can be CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY if you know HOWE. –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.

Perhaps you should ask the OP if he’s using a shock fence on his dogs? "I’d call the SHOCK fence effective and safe. Humane is one of those hot words that people can debate all day so I won’t touch that one. There are people who would call a regular chain link fence inhumane," liea altshuller. "I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting the whole cruelty thread again so I’ll state my opinion once and won’t defend it further: any method can be cruel for some dogs. Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the beginning, but w e’vecomealongwaysincethen.Shetrusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post. Point is, she’s been rewarded for coming, but she’s never been punished, even in the mildest way, for not coming. Is it time for that? What might I look for to tell?"

After talking with the vet yesterday and watching Cubbe all day today, I’m convinced that the shaking is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I’ll continue keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything up, I don’t see symptoms of anything neurological– and the vet agrees. –Lia

"Things are beginning to get much worse day by day and the vets seem unable to help. http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusMed.WMV http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusSmall.WMV" THAT’S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and ASYLUM ESCAPEES. BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!! http://tinyurl.com/389al In this video, the dog is constantly jerking his head all around. I’m not SHORE why he’s doing that. If he’s doing it because he is being shocked repeatedly into getting onto that skateboard, then it is my opinion that Fred Hassen is a dog abuser in the extreme. As would anyone be, no matter how much "experience" they had shocking dogs, nor how nationally "respected" they are/were. If, HOWEver, the dog is jerking his head all around because he is happy and for no other reason, well, then, never mind. I’ve just never seen this kind of behavior from a dog before, so maybe Fred can explain what would cause a dog to move his head like that. Here’s a other: http://tinyurl.com/2v9oh BUT, giving you the benefit of the doubt, please provide a quote (an original quote, not from one of Jerry Howe’s heavily edited diatribes) that shows a regular poster promoting or using an abusive form of training. BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.

He was next to me and I could see his neck muscles pulsing. He didn’t even blink an eye. Janet Boss

I can’t imagine needing anything higher than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG??? I can’t remember what model of Innotek I have, but I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

THAT’S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty? "Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver: For barking in the crate – leave the leash on and pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it. When he barks, use the line for a correction. - if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar. Lynn K. "I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in one shelter.) But their ability to set their own schedules and duties causes a great deal of scheduling overhead. And it takes effort and thought to ensure that volunteers get the meaningful experience that they work for. Someone has to be responsible for that Volunteer Program, and it is best done by a non-volunteer." Lynn K.

"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro manure." "Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply. REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG. Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch. Make the dog’s need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting your will fades in importance. but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth, get out the shotshell. Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in With your hand on the collar and ear, say, ‘fetch.’ Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick. Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy. You can press the dog’s ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb; Say ‘fetch’ while pressing the dummy against its lips and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl. "I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition. Should I have refused to groom them? Or even more pertinent – I was one of the people who had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter." Lynn K. "You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House Cats? Don’t bother. The answer is never," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs: "This Article Is Something We’ve Put Together For SF GSD Rescue How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay – this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K. "Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don’t forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in this situation. Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or whatever other reward system was being used." Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don’t forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is why you have the dog muzzled). If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your voice and the collar. This is important – the correction must be physically very strong – not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need to be corrected at all)." Lynn, looks like he got you there if these quotes are true. In the posts below you take responsibility for making those calls. In your post above, you state you do not make those calls. Which one is it?

WORDS OF WISDOM from our own Lynn Kosmakos 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day For Twenty Years I THINK I’M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM "I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic- depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more, while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged." "Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn the right to participate in by observing the easily understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways." Lynn K. "It wasn’t that meds didn’t work for her – she wouldn’t take them. I particularly remember a comment she made about scarey side effects of Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think I’m qualified to say that the very low risk of any side effect is far less frightening than the very real dangers of life without it." Lynn K. LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined

Response:

HOWEDY Master Of Deception blankman,

these words: I have two mixed breeds dogs both from the pound. Anytime there is a sudden unexpected change in behavior

We EXXXPECT certain CHANGES in behavior as we age, Master Of Deception blankman. the first step should be to determine if there is a physcal cause.

You’d THINK. Unless of curse, you KNEW enough abHOWET temperament and behavior that you wouldn’t need to GUESS at the CAUSES of FEAR. Has anyone seen this behavior before and can anyone explain it or know how to stop it?

BWEEEEJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAAA!!! I am afraid we will have to put this healthy and family friendly dog down because I would be scared to have her adopted by someone else given her present aggression and we cannot keep these two physically separated all the time as we work and also have 2 labradors on premises. Take her to the vet.

HOWE would you know which of the two should go? Perhaps the dog that’s startin the trouble is doin so on accHOWENT of the the OTHER DOG is SICK? Full work up – blood chemistry imbalance often causes behavior changes as does pain.

Yeah. But as was the case with your own dog, most often it’s STRESS from ABUSE that causes the dog’s system to got HOWETA CON-TROLL. Second consult a veterinary acupuncturist.

BWEEEAHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!! HOWE abHOWET a nice massage? Keeping the dogs physically separated when you are away is not difficult if your house has doors.

You’re a freakin imbecile. The dogs will scratch DHOWEN the doors unless the people are there to intimidate them for doin it. Put one dog in one room, close door. Put other dog in another room, close door.

THAT’S HOWE you TRAIN the dogs to get along? Adult large breed dogs should be able to wait for a normal work day.

You’re a mental case. Kennel runs also work admirably, if necessary, and are relatively inexpensive about $300 for a reasonable one.

You mean, instead of just TRAINING the dogs to BE NICE? Keeping warring dogs apart is less simple when you ARE home and trying to engage in normal activities.

That so? You mean, so long as you don’t FORGET to lock all the doors behind you. It takes a while to train yourself to maintain properly closed gates/doors and to learn to excersize dogs separately.

Yeah. Lucky thing it only takes a few minutes to TRAIN the dogs not to FEAR each other. But the burden is more a matter of learning and developing new habits, not of being overwhelmingly difficult.

You’re full of crap you lying dog abusing punk thug coward mental case. You hurt intimidate and murder dogs and lie abHOWET it. The intensity of what you are seeing is not so unusual with bitch to bitch battles (even for spayed females).

You’re full of crap. What is unusual is its occurrence after years of peaceful co-existence.

Not it you’re FAMILIAR with Scott & Fuller. If the health of BOTH dogs (and yes you should check the attacked dog as well as chemical changes may be present) –

BWEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!! You’re talkin six hundred dollars worth of testin. if the health of both is OK

Their health is O.K., it’s their MINDS that are AFRAID. placing the other in a non-bitch household

You mean GET RID of the dog on accHOWENT of you don’t have the intellect to HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic puppy dog. will not ORDINARILY be a problem.

SEZ YOU. You’re a lying dog abusing punk thug coward and active long term incurable MENTAL CASE. IF it is ordinary bitch fighting.

Vs EXTRAORDINARY bitch fighting, Master Of Deception blankman? There could be other things going on,

You’re blowin smoke up HOWER arses again. but if its just between these two and both are health the main difficulty in rehoming the other

You mean GET RID of the dog on accHOWENT of YOU DON’T KNOW HOWE to make a dog FEEL SAFE and S-HOWEND on accHOWENT of you’re a dog abusing MENTAL CASE. is that it is just plain difficult to place any older adult Labrador retriever,

That so? You mean, GET RID of dogs you don’t have the INTELLECT to train NEARLY INSTANTLY as has been CONSISTENTLY REPORTED by The Amazing Puppy Wizard’s FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual Students all over the Whole Wild World? You know, the WONS YOU CALL LIARS and FORGERIES. and ten times more so with one with a history of any problem whatsoever.

You ain’t gettin away with your lies and abuse noMOORE. YOU’RE INSANE. People want perfect dogs,

They GET the dog they TRAIN. or ones they can fool themselves into believing they can make into perfect dogs.

BWEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!! IT’S OVER. You’re a lying dog abusing mental case. Diane Blackman http://dog-play.com/

Val writes Monday, 6/3/02: Well, for what it’s worth, I am praising without physical contact and she does seem to listen better than when I would praise with it. I agree that it is a distraction. Anyway, no more aggressive behaviors from her since I started the Witts End.

Didja also see that he has ‘morphed’ into Valerie M. Holmes ????? Note: I am not saying there isn’t a VALID Valerie M. Holmes, but this one lives in howdy’s home. MB <G

HEY!!! There is a Valid Valerie with a REAL Dalmatian who is a real sweet dog with a few issues that I am working to resolve after adopting her from a shelter she spent 2 years in. All I want is to get some decent help for my dog. There is some decent stuff in Jerry’s manual. My dog has ACTUALLY been responding to her training. The deal is you have to separate your opinions and impressions from the guy who is writing these posts and take from the manual what you want. Personally, I get a pretty good chuckle out of the whole Jerry thing. I have to say the guy is pretty clever, you’re letting him get under your skin. It makes for a very amusing game I think. I’m sure he would agree, or he wouldn’t be playing everyday. He also wouldn’t be playing if he didn’t believe that his method of training weren’t valid. Perhaps I’ll learn from my mistakes, but so far, using the Wits’ End, I have gotten my dalmatian to listen to me, to look to me for direction, to wait for me to say when. I have changed her from an aggressive dog to one who is willing to please her owner, willing to listen, willing to assume her role in the pack. The real Valerie M. Holmes speaking P.s. Jerry, don’t get any ideas about morphing into me, ok? Friday, 5/31/02: HOWEDY Valerie, … I recently adopted a female, spayed 3 1/2 yr old dalmatian from a no-kill shelter.

Nice goin. She spent 2 years in the shelter and naturally she has some socialization issues to overcome.

Naaah not naturally, anyHOWE. Kenneling for a long time shouldn’t have problems associated with it if the facility was reasonable, and if they’re not killin dogs they couldn’t be as cruel as our dog lovers janet boss john richardson and mikey ball who gladly help dogs DIE. My problem is I am not quite sure HOW to tackle these issues. .

Don’t worry about it! I got all the answers and none of the calories. All ya got to do is agree to do anything Jerry sez and you get the aluminum funnel hat, membership card, secret password, secret decoder ring, secret fan club privilidges, secret FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual, secret FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method member’s benefits, and secret Contract Signed In Werewoof And Elf Blood with a lifetime GUARANTEE NEVER to have a dog behavior problem again and your dog will ALWAYS WANT to do as you ask. IMPOSSIBLE? It gets EVEN BETTER! Stick around… 1. She is aggresive toward **ALL** other dogs,

Ooops! WE got a TOUGH problem here. I hope you’re fit, dog training is a physical skill not easily learned through books, the written word just can’t SHOW you the precise moves necessary for commanding a dog. Every dog is an individual, and we got to SEE the behaviors to even GUESS what’s going on with your dog. THEN we got to formulate a training program based on the individual dog’s requirements for physical and emotional PRESSURE and learn the fine art of attrition and have the expertise to hurt your dog PRECICELY, and ONLY WHEN NECESSARY. But FIRST, a trip to the vet is in order. Any sudden changes in behavior needs to be examined by the veterinarian and he’ll be able to give you a referral to such an expert who knows HOWE and when to HURT your dog properly to make it friendly or advise you when to KILL IT TO BE FAIR. So, tomorrow morning call your vet and make an appointment in 15 days to put your dog to sleep. Ask him HOWE MUCH. Hang up the phone and SPEAK TO NO ONE!!! SAY NOTHING TILL you put that money into an envelope with your dog’s name PRINTED on it in UPPER CASE thingys. MAKE SURE you GO DIRECTLY TO THE BANK, SPEAK NOTHING!, and withdraw ONLY NEW BILLS! If you cannot obtain NEW currency KEEP GOIN! We need CLEAN MONEY for this SACRIFICE. When you accept this money DO NOT TOUCH! HAVE THE TELLER PUT THE BILLS INTO THE ENVELOPE AND SEAL IT. ASK HER TO PRINT YOUR DOG’S NAME ON THE BACK, Ooops! DON’T! That’s just an expression. Hand the teller a note. DON’T SPEAK! NOT THE FRONT. THE BACK OF THE SACRIFICIAL ENVELOPE IN UPPER CASE THINGY’S. Now you can speak, but don’t, nobody will believe you. Trust me. Take the envelope to your HOWES and put it inside your pillow case and FORGET ABOUT IT. Don’t need that for two weeks … read more »

Response:

HOWEDY jim,

I have two mixed breeds dogs both from the pound. One is 6 and the other 7 years old, both spayed females. For 5 years they have been together in the yard, in the house, sleeping in the same room, yada yada.

Ain’t that nice. Four days ago one of the dogs, a labrachow, started posturing with hair up, tail out, frozen stance whenever the other got near her.

All aggression is fear. Then without any provocation that I can detect,

All fear is caused by mishandling. she attaks the other dog and it is serioius,

All aggression is seriHOWES. not just some alpha dog

Ain’t no such thing. What you think of as alpha is the dog who’s MOORE AFRAID. putting another in her place in the pack.

THAT’S HOWE COME DOGS FIGHT. Just like kids. If the adults don’t know HOWE to raise them, they’ll fight. These fights bring blood, and they have to be forcibly separated. This has occurred at least five times even though we have tried to keep them separated and it does not seem to be resolving itself.

Well, you’ve certainly come to the right place to find HOWET abHOWET raising your dogs pupperly. DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS, jim. Has anyone seen this behavior before

ALL behavior problems are caused by mishandling. MOST of the dog lovers you’re askin here abHOWETS have THE SAME SAME SAME SAME PROBLEMS. "It is by muteness that a dog becomes so utterly beyond value." Like a confessor Priest? "With him, –John Galsworthy. Don’t bet your dog won’t tell on you… Their behaviors reflect our words, actions and training quirks. Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) and can anyone explain it or know how to stop it?

You can break your dog’s aggression NEARLY INSTANTLY. "The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior Never Change, Or They’d Not Be Scientific And Could Not Obtain Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results For All Handler’s And All Dogs, NEARLY INSTANTLY, As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard’s FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual," The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) I am afraid we will have to put this healthy and family friendly dog down

AS STATED: "Well, you’ve certainly come to the right place to find HOWET abHOWET raising your dogs pupperly. DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS, jim." "If You Talk With The Animals, They Will Talk With You And You Will Know Each Other. If You Do Not Talk To Them, You Will Not Know Them, And What You Do Not Know You Will Fear. What One Fears, One Destroys," Chief Dan George, adapted with permission from his FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard’s FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual. because I would be scared to have her adopted

HOWER dog lovers live in a constant state of FEAR. by someone else given her present aggression

You could train your dogs to BE NICE in a few minutes if you follow the INSTRUCTIONS in your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy Wizard’s FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com . and we cannot keep these two physically separated all the time

THAT never works. as we work and also have 2 labradors on premises.

Don’t matter what you got: "A Dog Is A Dog As A Kat Is A Kat As A Birdie Is A Birdie As A Child Is A Child As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES. ALL Critters Only Respond In PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment Which We Create For Them. ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT. In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS FAILURE MEANS DEATH. SAME SAME, For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS. Thanks for any advise–Jim

"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few regulars here who are either ill-tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)," –Marshall The Puppy Wizard’s SYNDROME is the perfect synergy of love, pride, desire, self will, greed, ego, fear, hate, arrogance, disbelief, jealousy, embarrassment, embellishment, shame, guilt, anger, aversion, attraction, revulsion, change, permanence, enlightenment, insult, attrition, and conditioning. It’s the perfect fusion of The Word…, in the physical. It’s time for the dog training industry and the universities who TEACH "behaviorists" to DEFEND THEIR METHODS against 100% NEAR INSTANT TOTAL SUCCESS as PROVEN by the C-HOWENTLESS NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual Student’s REPORTS, after they’ve "TRIED ALL OTHER METHODS and FAILED". ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT. "The day may come when the rest of the animal creation may acquire those rights which never could have been withholden from them but by the hand of tyranny. The question is not can they REASON, nor can they TALK, but can they SUFFER?" - – Jeremy Bentham "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims, may be the most oppressive. Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – - C.S. Lewis. "Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC), Agamemnon. "Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action as separate, not the wise. If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both. The level which is reached by wisdom is attained through right action as well. He who perceives that the two are one knows the truth." "Even the wise man acts in character with his nature, indeed all creatures act according to their natures. What is the use of compulsion then? The love and hate which are aroused by the objects of sense arise from Nature, do not yield to them. They only obstruct the path." Bhagavad Gita, adapted by Krishna with permission from His FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard’s FREE WWW Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual. "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." ~ Mohandas Gandhi — Adapted with permission from his FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard’s FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual. <}TPW ; ~ ) Force training JERRYIZES dogs… and GETS THEM DEAD. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - —– Original Message —– To: "The Puppy Wizard" Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard, I have, of late, come to recognize your genius and now must applaud your attempts to save animals from painful training procedures. You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent, who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to alert the world to animal abuse. We are lucky to have you, and more people should come to their senses and support your valuable work. Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit charity to fund your important work? Have you thought about holding a press conference so others can learn of your highly worthwhile and significant work? In closing, my only suggestion is that you try to keep your messages short for most readers may refuse to read a long message even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard. I wish you well in your endeavors. –Marshall Dermer Marshall Dermer/Associate Professor/ Behavior Analysis Specialty/Department of Psychology/University of Wisconsin- Milwaukee/Milwaukee,WI