The Mental Marathon
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In article <3849c9b…@huge.aa.net>, "whatatrip1" <rbol…@premier1.net> wrote: >Oliver Lu <rdfu…@concentric.net> wrote in message >news:E9587EE6928EBC49.93B6A5731EFB5FB5.271E657DB41A3361@lp.airnews.net… >> "whatatrip1" <rbol…@premier1.net> wrote: >> >Flydream4 <flydre…@aol.com> wrote in message >> >news:19991119231809.05622.00000139@ng-cl1.aol.com… >> >> My own obsessions are not of the norm, but I’ve learned how to apply my >> >own >> >> version of BT to them, the best way that I can! For example for the >past >> >few >> >> days I’ve been obsessing about a co-worker who doesn’t like me. Every >time >> >I’m >> >> around her I notice that she’s friendlier around everyone but me. Not a >> >usual >> >> obsession. I obsess about it constantly though and it makes me sick to >my >> >> stomach to be around her. But I developed a technique which seemed to >> >work, at >> >> least temporarily = I anticipate every time I have to work near her and >> >imagine >> >> repeatedly how painful it feels when she ignores me. So on purpose I >flood >> >my >> >> head with the thought "Ok…this next hour’s gonna be really painful. >> >Ouch! >> >> it’s gonna hurt! She’s going to be so mean. She hates me!" Every time >she >> >> ignores me I almost make it a joke. "OUCH!!!" I cry in my head "THIS >> >REALLY >> >> HURTS!!! OUCH!" I keep "ouching" so many times that the past day or two >it >> >> hasn’t been as bad. I’ve almost desensitized my mind to the thoughts >which >> >give >> >> me anxiety, by thinking them over and over again. But I DO NOT ACT ON >THEM >> >by >> >> trying to talk to her. I just do my work normally and let her continue >to >> >> ignore me. >> >I have used this technique also but the problem with it is that it is >like >> >fighting fire with fire and that in itself can become a habit not unlike >the >> >one you are dealing with. It is best if it doesn’t bother you in the >first >> >place. In the case you describe above, I have found that building a sense >of >> >self that does not need to be liked by everyone results in little anxiety >> >when someone doesn’t like me. Life is too short to please everyone, >please >> >your "self" first. >> >– >> >Take care of your "self". >> >whatatrip >> >rbol…@premier1.net >> yes but don’t you think that by kind of exposing herself to these ideas >> and then seeing that they don’t pan out can be an effective of getting to >> the point you describe (not caring what this other person thinks at all). >> i understand what you mean but I think as long as she doesn’t overdo it it >> can be a positive. >Yes, it certainly can be effective if you realize that your method is really >just more ocd behavior, assuming that it gets that far. Someone else just >wrote about methods of dealing with ocd becoming more ocd. I hope that >person can give us more insight from their perspective. It is something to >lookout for. I have seen it happen many times and when it does, it only >reinforces the belief ocd cannot be controlled. I’ve used the method above >for such things as dizziness, headaches, some fears and ocd itself. It is >kind of like what used to be called "reverse psychology". It seems the >effectiveness in this method comes from a degree of acceptance of the >problem and that makes it easier to move on. But if the method is done as a >kind of ritual, there isn’t any acceptance and the ritual goes on and on. >It would be interesting if Fly would take this situation and apply the CBT >techniques that she learned from the article she posted. The contrast >between the two would be very interesting. >– >Take care of your "self". >whatatrip >rbol…@premier1.net
i don’t know if you are responding to me but it is not my method it is the original poster’s. having said that i think this behavior could be described as dysfunctional if she indeed is doing it compulsively. however she seemed to indicate at the beginning that there was some objective evidence that this person was less friendly to her than to others, so there may be some justification for it. while i don’t think it is necessarily the best response, i think there can be some value in it *as long as she keeps her open to noticing the reality that eventually the situation does not pan out as badly as her anticipatory anxiety would predict*, so that eventually this home-spun exposure therapy could get her to a place where she could deal with the situation more effectively (talking to the person, building self-esteem away from the situation as you describe, etc.)
Response:
Oliver Lu <rdfu…@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:E9587EE6928EBC49.93B6A5731EFB5FB5.271E657DB41A3361@lp.airnews.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "whatatrip1" <rbol…@premier1.net> wrote: > >Flydream4 <flydre…@aol.com> wrote in message > >news:19991119231809.05622.00000139@ng-cl1.aol.com… > >> My own obsessions are not of the norm, but I’ve learned how to apply my > >own > >> version of BT to them, the best way that I can! For example for the past > >few > >> days I’ve been obsessing about a co-worker who doesn’t like me. Every time > >I’m > >> around her I notice that she’s friendlier around everyone but me. Not a > >usual > >> obsession. I obsess about it constantly though and it makes me sick to my > >> stomach to be around her. But I developed a technique which seemed to > >work, at > >> least temporarily = I anticipate every time I have to work near her and > >imagine > >> repeatedly how painful it feels when she ignores me. So on purpose I flood > >my > >> head with the thought "Ok…this next hour’s gonna be really painful. > >Ouch! > >> it’s gonna hurt! She’s going to be so mean. She hates me!" Every time she > >> ignores me I almost make it a joke. "OUCH!!!" I cry in my head "THIS > >REALLY > >> HURTS!!! OUCH!" I keep "ouching" so many times that the past day or two it > >> hasn’t been as bad. I’ve almost desensitized my mind to the thoughts which > >give > >> me anxiety, by thinking them over and over again. But I DO NOT ACT ON THEM > >by > >> trying to talk to her. I just do my work normally and let her continue to > >> ignore me. > >I have used this technique also but the problem with it is that it is like > >fighting fire with fire and that in itself can become a habit not unlike the > >one you are dealing with. It is best if it doesn’t bother you in the first > >place. In the case you describe above, I have found that building a sense of > >self that does not need to be liked by everyone results in little anxiety > >when someone doesn’t like me. Life is too short to please everyone, please > >your "self" first. > >– > >Take care of your "self". > >whatatrip > >rbol…@premier1.net > yes but don’t you think that by kind of exposing herself to these ideas > and then seeing that they don’t pan out can be an effective of getting to > the point you describe (not caring what this other person thinks at all). > i understand what you mean but I think as long as she doesn’t overdo it it > can be a positive.
Yes, it certainly can be effective if you realize that your method is really just more ocd behavior, assuming that it gets that far. Someone else just wrote about methods of dealing with ocd becoming more ocd. I hope that person can give us more insight from their perspective. It is something to lookout for. I have seen it happen many times and when it does, it only reinforces the belief ocd cannot be controlled. I’ve used the method above for such things as dizziness, headaches, some fears and ocd itself. It is kind of like what used to be called "reverse psychology". It seems the effectiveness in this method comes from a degree of acceptance of the problem and that makes it easier to move on. But if the method is done as a kind of ritual, there isn’t any acceptance and the ritual goes on and on. It would be interesting if Fly would take this situation and apply the CBT techniques that she learned from the article she posted. The contrast between the two would be very interesting. — Take care of your "self". whatatrip rbol…@premier1.net
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"whatatrip1" <rbol…@premier1.net> wrote: >Flydream4 <flydre…@aol.com> wrote in message >news:19991119231809.05622.00000139@ng-cl1.aol.com… >> My own obsessions are not of the norm, but I’ve learned how to apply my >own >> version of BT to them, the best way that I can! For example for the past >few >> days I’ve been obsessing about a co-worker who doesn’t like me. Every time >I’m >> around her I notice that she’s friendlier around everyone but me. Not a >usual >> obsession. I obsess about it constantly though and it makes me sick to my >> stomach to be around her. But I developed a technique which seemed to >work, at >> least temporarily = I anticipate every time I have to work near her and >imagine >> repeatedly how painful it feels when she ignores me. So on purpose I flood >my >> head with the thought "Ok…this next hour’s gonna be really painful. >Ouch! >> it’s gonna hurt! She’s going to be so mean. She hates me!" Every time she >> ignores me I almost make it a joke. "OUCH!!!" I cry in my head "THIS >REALLY >> HURTS!!! OUCH!" I keep "ouching" so many times that the past day or two it >> hasn’t been as bad. I’ve almost desensitized my mind to the thoughts which >give >> me anxiety, by thinking them over and over again. But I DO NOT ACT ON THEM >by >> trying to talk to her. I just do my work normally and let her continue to >> ignore me. >I have used this technique also but the problem with it is that it is like >fighting fire with fire and that in itself can become a habit not unlike the >one you are dealing with. It is best if it doesn’t bother you in the first >place. In the case you describe above, I have found that building a sense of >self that does not need to be liked by everyone results in little anxiety >when someone doesn’t like me. Life is too short to please everyone, please >your "self" first. >– >Take care of your "self". >whatatrip >rbol…@premier1.net
yes but don’t you think that by kind of exposing herself to these ideas and then seeing that they don’t pan out can be an effective of getting to the point you describe (not caring what this other person thinks at all). i understand what you mean but I think as long as she doesn’t overdo it it can be a positive.
Response:
Frank Biondo wrote: > I sometimes wish that if I have to have this illness, then > why can’t it be the "typical" kind of OCD where the obsessions are > easily defined and more treatable? At least then I might have a chance with BT. (But I know > deep-down that those of you with more "traditonal" OCD really don’t have > it any easier–it’s just DIFFERENT.)
Hi Frank, Interesting post and a good vent. 
I can sort of understand what you mean about "wanting" having typical OCD symptoms like ‘fear of contamination and hand washing". On the surface yes, I think it is easier to grasp a hold of and deal with BUT I think they are just outward symptoms or indicators of a style of thinking that people with OCD can have. Personally I think my OCD is not so much say "the fear of germs and hand washing" but the way I think about possible danger, risks, uncertainty, myself, my environment etc … I have that typical germs/hand washing OCD symptom and straight BT helps but it doesn’t do much. CBT (c=cognitive), with a big emphasis on the ‘C’, on the other hand made a lot of the BT unnecessary. My therapist helped me see my thought process a big contributing factor to my anxiety and she offered me different ways to think about things that bothered me so I wouldn’t get so anxious and could manage my thoughts better. I learned some ways to control my mind instead of it controling me. Once I learned this doing behaviorial therapy was either not needed or fairly easy (for the most part). > BT, I feel, just wouldn’t work for me, since the actual thoughts are not > really the problem–
I think it *is* the actual thoughts that is the problem. Once I learned to think a bit differently my OCD has been much more manageable. I recommend at least exploring CBT. It might help you out. — monkey http://pages.hotbot.com/health/sillychickens/ mon…@gilligansisland.net (to email me axe ‘gilligans’) —
Response:
Thanks for the ideas, they gave me some hope. (a rather rare commodity for me). I will definately pursue some CBT with my therapist when I see him next… –Frank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -monkey wrote: > Frank Biondo wrote: > > I sometimes wish that if I have to have this illness, then > > why can’t it be the "typical" kind of OCD where the obsessions are > > easily defined and more treatable? At least then I might have a chance with BT. (But I know > > deep-down that those of you with more "traditonal" OCD really don’t have > > it any easier–it’s just DIFFERENT.) > Hi Frank, > Interesting post and a good vent. > I can sort of understand what you mean about "wanting" having > typical OCD symptoms like ‘fear of contamination and hand > washing". On the surface yes, I think it is easier to grasp a > hold of and deal with BUT I think they are just outward symptoms > or indicators of a style of thinking that people with OCD can > have. Personally I think my OCD is not so much say "the fear of > germs and hand washing" but the way I think about possible > danger, risks, uncertainty, myself, my environment etc … > I have that typical germs/hand washing OCD symptom and straight > BT helps but it doesn’t do much. CBT (c=cognitive), with a big > emphasis on the ‘C’, on the other hand made a lot of the BT > unnecessary. My therapist helped me see my thought process a big > contributing factor to my anxiety and she offered me different > ways to think about things that bothered me so I wouldn’t get so > anxious and could manage my thoughts better. I learned some ways > to control my mind instead of it controling me. Once I learned > this doing behaviorial therapy was either not needed or fairly > easy (for the most part). > > BT, I feel, just wouldn’t work for me, since the actual thoughts are not > > really the problem– > I think it *is* the actual thoughts that is the problem. Once I > learned to think a bit differently my OCD has been much more > manageable. I recommend at least exploring CBT. It might help you > out. > — > monkey > http://pages.hotbot.com/health/sillychickens/ > mon…@gilligansisland.net > (to email me axe ‘gilligans’) > —
Response:
>I sometimes wish that if I have to have this illness, then >why can’t it be the "typical" kind of OCD where the obsessions are >easily defined and more >treatable? At least then I might have a chance with BT.
I often feel the same way too. I’m sure you could still have a chance with BT even if your symptoms are "different", it just might be harder to explain to your therapist. With time and patience though I think a therapist who specializes in or has experience in dealing with OCD could learn how to somehow apply it to your symptoms. >BT, I feel, just wouldn’t work for me, since the actual thoughts are not >really the problem–it’s the general, indescribable "panic bursts" as I >call them, rocking my world every 10 seconds sometimes, and they feel >like they have the power to ruin my life. And by WORRYING about the >anxiety ruining my life, it DOES!
You might need to figure out what it is that you’re worrying about. A therapist might even give you a cassette to play over and over again to expose yourself to your most fearful thoughts: "MY ANXIETY WILL RUIN MY LIFE!!", or something like that. My own obsessions are not of the norm, but I’ve learned how to apply my own version of BT to them, the best way that I can! For example for the past few days I’ve been obsessing about a co-worker who doesn’t like me. Every time I’m around her I notice that she’s friendlier around everyone but me. Not a usual obsession. I obsess about it constantly though and it makes me sick to my stomach to be around her. But I developed a technique which seemed to work, at least temporarily = I anticipate every time I have to work near her and imagine repeatedly how painful it feels when she ignores me. So on purpose I flood my head with the thought "Ok…this next hour’s gonna be really painful. Ouch! it’s gonna hurt! She’s going to be so mean. She hates me!" Every time she ignores me I almost make it a joke. "OUCH!!!" I cry in my head "THIS REALLY HURTS!!! OUCH!" I keep "ouching" so many times that the past day or two it hasn’t been as bad. I’ve almost desensitized my mind to the thoughts which give me anxiety, by thinking them over and over again. But I DO NOT ACT ON THEM by trying to talk to her. I just do my work normally and let her continue to ignore me. Obsessions that are odd or different from "normal" obsessions can be treated. A therapist who has a lot of experience in dealing with OCD will recognize the pattern, and figure out a way to treat it. Maybe you can ask yourself: Are you afraid something bad will happen? Does the thought bother you over and over again? Do you have to do something to negate the anxiety? "Odd" obsessions are a bitch because they’re so embarrassing to talk about and hard to tell even if they’re OCD. But once you recognize them for what they are, it’s another weight off your shoulders. Just harder. It’s good that you’ve expressed yourself here. This is a great place to talk about your most "unusual" obsessions, and organize your thoughts in the process. I’m sure you’ll find many people who can relate to what you wrote. I know I can…boy I wish I just washed my hands! =) BTW, have you read the thread just recently posted on the NG "My craziest obsessions"? Take care — Fly — Tried on a shirt in the fitting room but thought I saw blood on it. Discarded it, went out to get another shirt. Took to another room to try on. Looked away 1 min. Looked back. Couldn’t try it on. What if someone switched it wth the old one?
Response:
Hey Fly– Thanks for the feedback–I DO think I’ll pursue some BT with my present therapist who’s very intuitive and empathetic of my problem. I don’t really have much confidence that it will be effective, though, but I’ll give anything a chance at this point. –Frank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Flydream4 wrote: > >I sometimes wish that if I have to have this illness, then > >why can’t it be the "typical" kind of OCD where the obsessions are > >easily defined and more > >treatable? At least then I might have a chance with BT. > I often feel the same way too. > I’m sure you could still have a chance with BT even if your symptoms are > "different", it just might be harder to explain to your therapist. With time > and patience though I think a therapist who specializes in or has experience in > dealing with OCD could learn how to somehow apply it to your symptoms. > >BT, I feel, just wouldn’t work for me, since the actual thoughts are not > >really the problem–it’s the general, indescribable "panic bursts" as I > >call them, rocking my world every 10 seconds sometimes, and they feel > >like they have the power to ruin my life. And by WORRYING about the > >anxiety ruining my life, it DOES! > You might need to figure out what it is that you’re worrying about. A therapist > might even give you a cassette to play over and over again to expose yourself > to your most fearful thoughts: "MY ANXIETY WILL RUIN MY LIFE!!", or something > like that. > My own obsessions are not of the norm, but I’ve learned how to apply my own > version of BT to them, the best way that I can! For example for the past few > days I’ve been obsessing about a co-worker who doesn’t like me. Every time I’m > around her I notice that she’s friendlier around everyone but me. Not a usual > obsession. I obsess about it constantly though and it makes me sick to my > stomach to be around her. But I developed a technique which seemed to work, at > least temporarily = I anticipate every time I have to work near her and imagine > repeatedly how painful it feels when she ignores me. So on purpose I flood my > head with the thought "Ok…this next hour’s gonna be really painful. Ouch! > it’s gonna hurt! She’s going to be so mean. She hates me!" Every time she > ignores me I almost make it a joke. "OUCH!!!" I cry in my head "THIS REALLY > HURTS!!! OUCH!" I keep "ouching" so many times that the past day or two it > hasn’t been as bad. I’ve almost desensitized my mind to the thoughts which give > me anxiety, by thinking them over and over again. But I DO NOT ACT ON THEM by > trying to talk to her. I just do my work normally and let her continue to > ignore me. > Obsessions that are odd or different from "normal" obsessions can be treated. A > therapist who has a lot of experience in dealing with OCD will recognize the > pattern, and figure out a way to treat it. Maybe you can ask yourself: > Are you afraid something bad will happen? > Does the thought bother you over and over again? > Do you have to do something to negate the anxiety? > "Odd" obsessions are a bitch because they’re so embarrassing to talk about and > hard to tell even if they’re OCD. But once you recognize them for what they > are, it’s another weight off your shoulders. Just harder. > It’s good that you’ve expressed yourself here. This is a great place to talk > about your most "unusual" obsessions, and organize your thoughts in the > process. I’m sure you’ll find many people who can relate to what you wrote. I > know I can…boy I wish I just washed my hands! =) BTW, have you read the > thread just recently posted on the NG "My craziest obsessions"? > Take care > — > Fly > — > Tried on a shirt in the fitting room but thought I saw blood on it. Discarded > it, went out to get another shirt. Took to another room to try on. Looked away > 1 min. Looked back. Couldn’t try it on. What if someone switched it wth the old > one?
Response:
Flydream4 <flydre…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991119231809.05622.00000139@ng-cl1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My own obsessions are not of the norm, but I’ve learned how to apply my own > version of BT to them, the best way that I can! For example for the past few > days I’ve been obsessing about a co-worker who doesn’t like me. Every time I’m > around her I notice that she’s friendlier around everyone but me. Not a usual > obsession. I obsess about it constantly though and it makes me sick to my > stomach to be around her. But I developed a technique which seemed to work, at > least temporarily = I anticipate every time I have to work near her and imagine > repeatedly how painful it feels when she ignores me. So on purpose I flood my > head with the thought "Ok…this next hour’s gonna be really painful. Ouch! > it’s gonna hurt! She’s going to be so mean. She hates me!" Every time she > ignores me I almost make it a joke. "OUCH!!!" I cry in my head "THIS REALLY > HURTS!!! OUCH!" I keep "ouching" so many times that the past day or two it > hasn’t been as bad. I’ve almost desensitized my mind to the thoughts which give > me anxiety, by thinking them over and over again. But I DO NOT ACT ON THEM by > trying to talk to her. I just do my work normally and let her continue to > ignore me.
I have used this technique also but the problem with it is that it is like fighting fire with fire and that in itself can become a habit not unlike the one you are dealing with. It is best if it doesn’t bother you in the first place. In the case you describe above, I have found that building a sense of self that does not need to be liked by everyone results in little anxiety when someone doesn’t like me. Life is too short to please everyone, please your "self" first. — Take care of your "self". whatatrip rbol…@premier1.net
Response:
Hi… I wrote this as part of a personal response to someone, then realized that I felt like sharing it with others. Sorry if I ramble a bit… I’ve always felt that a person who has OCD can’t possibly have enough friends, supporters and just people to talk to. It’s strange, though, because for many years in my teens and twenties, I was a person who held everything in and confided in no one. But now, just the opposite is true–I sometimes feel that I want to express myself to EVERYONE for hours at a time! Screw the smalltalk, I think–let’s deal with LIFE! Unfortunately, that attitude can sometimes scare people off–people who aren’t ready to delve deeper into their lives and examine what really lurks underneath. Those of us with OCD are a very different breed, though, since we ALWAYS seem to be internally examining everything to the point of fatigue and great stress. It’s like running a mental-marathon that has no finish-line, and I have to explain this to my non-ill friends so they understand why I’m always so exhausted and frequently on-edge. Truly sucks, doesn’t it? (understatement of the century). As I mentioned in an earlier posting, I have a very strange form of this disease, almost a psychotic variation of it–and I sometimes wish that if I have to have this illness, then why can’t it be the "typical" kind of OCD where the obsessions are easily defined and more treatable? At least then I might have a chance with BT. (But I know deep-down that those of you with more "traditonal" OCD really don’t have it any easier–it’s just DIFFERENT.) BT, I feel, just wouldn’t work for me, since the actual thoughts are not really the problem–it’s the general, indescribable "panic bursts" as I call them, rocking my world every 10 seconds sometimes, and they feel like they have the power to ruin my life. And by WORRYING about the anxiety ruining my life, it DOES! A self-fulfilling prophecy which is the most ridiculous part of it all. I actually worry about worrying–anxiety is the main problem, I guess. Anxiety is the trigger, and OCD is the bullitt. Too bad anti-anxiety drugs haven’t knocked it back in the least. Neither does knowledge, it seems– the more I learn about this illness and about myself, the stronger the OCD seems to get–instead of becoming more controllable. I’m really at the end of my rope with all of it, like so many of us are I guess. All I want to do is sleep, because when I’m awake, I’m under attack, and I can’t deal with the shell-shock anymore. What a way to live, huh? Not really living, though–just existing. There are so many things I want to do in life, steps I’m ready to take, but the illness holds me back from it all no matter how hard I try. I can’t help but wonder where I’ll be in another 10 years–I used to be optimistic about the future, knowing that things HAD to get better. But they really DON’T have to, I realize now. All I can do is hold on to my friends and try to share things with them and maybe help a few others in the meantime. Because, as corny as it sounds, I feel that when ONE person gets some relief, we all benefit in some small way. A vicarious minor victory in the great war against this horrible illness… Anyway, thanks to everyone for listening. Just needed to express myself, as we all do. –Frank
