L-5-hydroxy Tryptophan question
Question:
But, we should assume that any cautionary posts are probably the work of the Evil Pharmaceutical Companies
maybe and ignore them,
not smart because they’re out to get us.
Wrong. They are out to get profit and they don’t care who gets hurt. Roger
Response:
For some of us 5-HTP is the only answer. For over a decade I suffered from terrible debilitating panic attacks. I’ve taken many different drugs, Xanax is the only one that in any way helped. When the SSRIs came out I was eager to give them a try. For me they were a great dissapointment as the side effects were completely overwhelming.I was forced to return to Xanax. (Paxil was a real nightmare) I tried 5-HTP on a whim. I slept well that night and awoke the next morning relaxed and I’ve never looked back. My old panic attacks have completely vanished. I then got off the Xanax (which required a week of hospitalization). My question is, is there any real substantive evidence that 5-HTP causes heart damage in humans? Pardon me for being suspicious but how much of what you say is biased interpretation and how much is factual? I’m not trying to start an argument, I’m just trying to get closer to the truth. There must be several million souls out there taking the stuff and if it was causing real problems don’t you think that our dear friends over at the FDA would have long since banned the stuff? You may be right in what you say but I have to be skeptical as it seems that everytime a new non-patent medicine becomes popular I see some MD on the local news saying "loooook out!". Whatever, I’m forced to use the stuff and my health has never been better. – Jim P.
Response:
I don’t believe you have ever seen Dr. Harris recommend a LEF product or procedure.
True. I also know of studies showing that physicians who consult for industry tend to publish studies which favor the products of the industry for which they consult. Dr. Harris may or may not receive money from LEF – which I think he should make public since it has some bearing on the present topic – but nevertheless as a consultant he has some professional stake in the company and its products. As for being defensive: I simply asked for scientific references to a scientific argument, and those references were not forthcoming. I was not the only one who asked for those references, to no avail. I have now been provided with 5 references which Dr. Harris has offered as support for his argument. I will read them. It is not defensiveness, it is simply how scientific dialogue works. Citations to literature are part of the process. Do you want to give them a product than can do harm? Do N.D.’s have the same credo as M.D.’s; i.e., First of all, do no harm?
Will the product cause harm? That is what this is all about. So far we’ve had Dr. Harris saying so without documentation. All I did was ask for citations. I asked him via email and didn’t get anything. Why he did not include references to what he has already written on this topic is unknown. It certainly would have helped, because as he has already stated, there is no evidence for his specific conclusion; he has apparently read related literature and pieced the conclusion together (as he states in a post). It would help to have the references to the various pieces so that one could follow his thinking. He didn’t do that. Do NDs follow "First, Do No Harm"? You can go to the school’s web page and read the philosophy of the profession (http://www.ncnm.edu). And I’ll wager that NDs follow that guideline far more rigerously than do MDs. And I can cite the bodycounts, if you like. Greg Nigh Student, National College of Naturopathic Medicine (http://www.ncnm.edu), for whom I do not pretend to speak.
Response:
Personally, I think you’ll find all SORTS of scary things about 5-htp on the Net since it just may be an effective alternative to pharmaceuticals.
I haven’t found that. Just lots of people selling it, virtually nobody warning against it (except Steve Harris). No particular reason to assume it’s more of a threat than SJW or other darlings of the alt med set. And if that’s the case, it has the potential to deal a major blow to pharmaceutical company profits.
Unlikely. But, we should assume that any cautionary posts are probably the work of the Evil Pharmaceutical Companies and ignore them, because they’re out to get us. — David Wright :: wright at ibnets.com :: Not a Spokesman for Anyone These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct. "Few things give a greater feeling of security than a full gas tank."
Response:
I saw the DateLine segment last night about L-5-hydroxy Tryptophan. They said that there MAY have been seven people who developed problems using it, out of millions in Europe and Japan. And the MDs were so seriious about it’s dangers. What a crock of shit! What hypocrites! Their drug company drugs almost always do MUCH worst than 7 out of millions, and one of the MDs from Minnisota had the gall to say, "You betch ya [there is a problem]." Who paid these hypocrites? Roger
Response:
There are two supposed problems with 5-HTP. One is the "peak X" contaminant that may or may not cause Eosinophilia-myalgia.
Exactly. So, as with any other product, use caution – find out all you can about possible side effects. Personally, I think you’ll find all SORTS of scary things about 5-htp on the Net since it just may be an effective alternative to pharmaceuticals. And if that’s the case, it has the potential to deal a major blow to pharmaceutical company profits. So, IMHO, take any "scare tactic" posts with a grain of salt. …..And call me in the morning. ;-) -Songie
Response:
Go to http://www.dejannews then to Power Search, then enter HTP-5 in the subject the newsgroup column. You’ll get them. I did this. I got 37 posts. I sampled about 15 at random. Not a single citation in one of them, nor even a reference to an author. Harris makes a few allusions to serotonin conversion in the liver.
There was also an article in the NEJM in the May, 1998, issue, I believe; although I am not certain of the date. It had the same conclusion, I don’t believe you have ever seen Dr. Harris recommend a LEF product or procedure. His concerns may be the reason they don’t have 5-HTP in any of their products. No need to be defensive of his postings. Either you accept it, like the thousands of others, or you don’t. You are responsible for your own health; and, being an future N.D., probably will be responsible for many other people’s health as well. Do you want to give them a product than can do harm? Do N.D.’s have the same credo as M.D.’s; i.e., First of all, do no harm? Gordon Held
Response:
BTW: Dr. Harris is the medical advisor about 5-HTP to the LEF, so asking the LEF about references is like asking Dr. Harris about references.
Yes, I saw that on the web page. I only hoped that, since the LEF was advertising that they had this article forthcoming, they might put an inquiry to Dr. Harris on when it might appear. Speculation is the MO for much of usenet, but in scientific discussions it isn’t of much use without a body of data to support it. I’ll that is being asked of Dr. Harris is references to the body of data from which he is drawing his conclusions. It is interesting to note that the LEF has their own anti-depression formula that they sell which doesn’t contain 5-HTP. Harris is spreading high-quality angst about the LEF’s competitors’ products. Too bad he isn’t upfront about the data supporting his crusade. It makes it look bad in a number of ways. Greg Nigh Student, National College of Naturopathic Medicine (http://www.ncnm.edu), for whom I do not pretend to speak.
Response:
Go to http://www.dejannews then to Power Search, then enter HTP-5 in the subject the newsgroup column. You’ll get them.
I did this. I got 37 posts. I sampled about 15 at random. Not a single citation in one of them, nor even a reference to an author. Harris makes a few allusions to serotonin conversion in the liver. Did a Medline search on (5-HT or 5-HTP) and liver and convert. Got two articles, one using yeast, one in rats, neither particularly relevant to the topic at hand. Did another Medline search on (5-HT or 5-HTP) and liver and B6. One citation, about leucine, and only tangentially about serotonin, but only about brain serotonin, not serum serotonin. I’ve done all this before, with different Medline searches, and can find no citations to the things that Dr. Harris is talking about. He won’t provide any references, just uncited essays. I’m still waiting for citations. If Dr. Harris is basing his speculation about heart problems from 5-HTP supplementation, he *must* have some references. Greg Nigh Student, National College of Naturopathic Medicine (http://www.ncnm.edu), for whom I do not pretend to speak.
Response:
Go to http://www.dejannews then to Power Search, then enter HTP-5 in the subject newsgroup column. You’ll get them. For an abbreviated version from another source, go to http://www.raysahelian.com Gordon Held – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I urge caution for anyone who wants to take %-HTP ot tryptophan. I post this agian…from Dr. Steve Harris: Because it gets turned into serotonin in your liver, and dumped into your blood (depending on your B6 status, in part). I’ve asked Dr. Harris for references to his essay on this danger, to no avail. I’ve looked for information via Medline about conversion in the liver and the role of B6 in the process. Other than finding cites saying increased B6 does not lead to higher serum serotonin in the blood, I can find nothing. I’ve asked the Life Extension Foundation when they are going to publish/post their promised article on the details of this danger. No response. Can someone – anyone – give me some references to this potential danger? Greg Nigh Student, National College of Naturopathic Medicine (http://www.ncnm.edu), for whom I do not pretend to speak.
Response:
There are two supposed problems with 5-HTP. One is the "peak X" contaminant that may or may not cause Eosinophilia-myalgia. The other is Dr. Harris’ contention that 5-HTP raises serum serotonin levels because it is converted in the liver. I do not believe it is converted in the liver. In http://www.raysahelian.com I found one reference to this on the first page. I have also read other sources that state this also. Excerpt from 5-HTP: Nature’s Serotonin Solution published July 1998 and authored by Ray Sahelian, MD.: "5-hydroxy-tryptophan is a natural supplement that converts in the brain into serotonin". BTW: Dr. Harris is the medical advisor about 5-HTP to the LEF, so asking the LEF about references is like asking Dr. Harris about references. Mike Colantonio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Go to http://www.dejannews then to Power Search, then enter HTP-5 in the subject newsgroup column. You’ll get them. For an abbreviated version from another source, go to http://www.raysahelian.com Gordon Held I urge caution for anyone who wants to take %-HTP ot tryptophan. I post this agian…from Dr. Steve Harris: Because it gets turned into serotonin in your liver, and dumped into your blood (depending on your B6 status, in part). I’ve asked Dr. Harris for references to his essay on this danger, to no avail. I’ve looked for information via Medline about conversion in the liver and the role of B6 in the process. Other than finding cites saying increased B6 does not lead to higher serum serotonin in the blood, I can find nothing. I’ve asked the Life Extension Foundation when they are going to publish/post their promised article on the details of this danger. No response. Can someone – anyone – give me some references to this potential danger? Greg Nigh Student, National College of Naturopathic Medicine (http://www.ncnm.edu), for whom I do not pretend to speak.
Response:
I urge caution for anyone who wants to take %-HTP ot tryptophan. I post this agian…from Dr. Steve Harris: Because it gets turned into serotonin in your liver, and dumped into your blood (depending on your B6 status, in part).
I’ve asked Dr. Harris for references to his essay on this danger, to no avail. I’ve looked for information via Medline about conversion in the liver and the role of B6 in the process. Other than finding cites saying increased B6 does not lead to higher serum serotonin in the blood, I can find nothing. I’ve asked the Life Extension Foundation when they are going to publish/post their promised article on the details of this danger. No response. Can someone – anyone – give me some references to this potential danger? Greg Nigh Student, National College of Naturopathic Medicine (http://www.ncnm.edu), for whom I do not pretend to speak.
Response:
It is said that L-5 HT helps to fight panic attacks and depression. Is there any side effects to this supplement? Thanks.
Response:
: It is said that L-5 HT helps to fight panic attacks and depression. : : Is there any side effects to this supplement? Thanks. "Said" by who? A website or a MLM shill? — Carol…. For the truth: http://www.quackwatch.com/index.html :
Response:
There are no side affects from 5-HTP or tryptophane….also helps you sleep. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : It is said that L-5 HT helps to fight panic attacks and depression. : : Is there any side effects to this supplement? Thanks. "Said" by who? A website or a MLM shill? — Carol…. For the truth: http://www.quackwatch.com/index.html :
Response:
There are no side affects from 5-HTP or tryptophane….also helps you sleep.
Tryptophan, maybe. 5-HTP, well, as Ed Mathes has reposted, it may not be all that innocuous. — David Wright :: wright at ibnets.com :: Not a Spokesman for Anyone These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct. "Few things give a greater feeling of security than a full gas tank."
Response:
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