Badly need help coping!
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In article <6CnK5.72075$td5.11111…@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>, "KandNver" <bethani…@home.com> wrote: > … It is good that you and your wife have started to talk about > your issues, but make sure that the two of you continue to > talk and you MUST be honest with each other. … One thing that > maybe you and your wife could try is to invite a third party into > your marital bed. A woman that the both of you could enjoy. > That way she could determine if she REALLY is a lesbian and at > the same time there would be no guilt feelings. > It would simply be the two of you "expanding" your sexual playfulness! > Anyway that is just my take of your situation. > I hope I have been helpful!
A serious discussion of your suggestion belongs in alt.polyamory. I believe that your suggestion would be more damaging than George’s current situation. — Andy Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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My impression was that you bombarded her with analyses about why she is not a lesbian. She sounds confused about many things, possibly including her gender identification. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"george" <geo…@where.com> writes: > I did not tell her she what she was, or was not, I only told her my opinion, > and that was that I do not think she is a lesbian.
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I read your post on the group, I have never been to this newsgroup before but I feel that I can offer maybe an insight into the situation you are experiencing, not frommy own personal experience but from the example of a friend of my family who is suffering from similar difficulties. My wife has a friend (former boyfriend who i have come to accept as a friend too, no past feeling between the two of them) He is married with two kids, but about three months ago he "came out of the closet" to everyone about his homosexual feelings toward men. He told his wife and she was devastated. They still co-habitat in the same house for the benefit of their children, but he carries on affairs with other men and so does she. The most problems started to come when he decided to "experiment" with his feelings. My wife and I listen nightly to his plights with his love life and listen also to his wife’s torments. My wife and I believe that he isn’t really homosexual, but bi-sexual. He chose to follow the ways of his homosexual side and that destroyed what ever was left of hismarriage. He continues to have marital relati0ns with his wife as well as with other men, but does not tell his wife all of the things he "experiments" with the other guys, putting her and their children in danger. It is good that you and your wife have started to talk about tyour issues, but make sure that the two of you continue to talk and you MUST be honest with each other. My wife’s friend has said several times that he wishes he could just stay with his wife, but that is a little too late at this point. He made his choice. He may have been able to stay with his wife before the other relationships started. He wanted to Experiment and that was what ended his marriage. Extra-marital affairs are affairs whether they are same-sex or hetero. One thing that maybe you and your wife could try is to invite a third party into your marital bed. A woman that the both of you could enjoy. That way she could determine if she REALLY is a lesbian and at the same time there would be no guilt feelings. It would simply be the two of you "expanding" your sexual playfulness! Anyway that is just my take of your situation. I hope I have been helpful!
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In article <sE5J5.3135$4P2.21…@news2.atl>, "george" <geo…@where.com> wrote: > have any suggestions for reading on the subject. Is Kate Millet’s > autobiography pertinent to my problem? > Thanks for the reply.
"Flying", Kate Millet’s mid-1970’s autobiography is definitely not relevant to your problem or ASM in general. Among other things, it describes an open marriage. I read it before meeting my wife, while trying to understand an earlier girlfriend’s sexuality. I was asserting that gay circles as well as straight ones have social pressures on sexuality. While my wife approved that I shared this advice, I believe it independently of her. My point was that, despite expectations in many gay circles, having homosexual desires need not nullify heterosexual desire and love. My wife is an example. The challenges to our marriage are not based on her sexuality. I don’t know how relevant this experience is to your marriage. I wanted to give you some perspective, though. God bless you both. — "Andy" Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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"george" geo…@where.com wrote: >no, she is taking it, because I see her taking it and I have picked up the >prescription for her on at least four occasions in the last year.
Okay, well that dispenses with that issue. In any event, good wishes for tomorrow. CJ
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"george" geo…@where.com wrote: >she is taking medication for her problem. It used to work, but I’m not so >sure now. She says she hasn’t seen her psychiatrist for a year, and only >contacts him to get the medication refilled.
Perhaps she’s not taking her meds. And perhaps she’s not taking it because she hasn’t had a prescription refill in over a year. ************* > We have counseling tommorrow. >Wish us luck.
But of course. CJ
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I did not tell her she what she was, or was not, I only told her my opinion, and that was that I do not think she is a lesbian.
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have any suggestions for reading on the subject. Is Kate Millet’s autobiography pertinent to my problem? Thanks for the reply.
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no, she is taking it, because I see her taking it and I have picked up the prescription for her on at least four occasions in the last year.
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"george" <geo…@lez.com> writes:
{Discovered wife has been reading "fantasy" lesbian sites about Xena character} > I told her that I didn’t really believe that she is a lesbian just because > she gets turned on by lesbian literature.
I don’t understand why you’re telling your wife what she "is" or "is not". Only she can tell you, and maybe she is not ready to acknowledge whatever she is, even to herself. Karen
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she is taking medication for her problem. It used to work, but I’m not so sure now. She says she hasn’t seen her psychiatrist for a year, and only contacts him to get the medication refilled. We have counseling tommorrow. Wish us luck.
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In a reply to this message (that has not yet reached Deja News, Karen Ronan wrote: > "george" <geo…@lez.com> writes: > {Discovered wife has been reading "fantasy" lesbian > sites about Xena character} > > I told her that I didn’t really believe that she is a lesbian just > > because she gets turned on by lesbian literature. > I don’t understand why you’re telling your wife what she > "is" or "is not". Only she can tell you, and maybe she is > not ready to acknowledge whatever she is, even to herself. > Karen
George, (Remember that I am guessing about what could be, based on your posts and Karen’s. Your wife and you know herself better than anyone on ASM.) If your wife decides that this is not just a passing fantasy, I hope that she and you keep in mind that sexual desire for men and desire for women are two separate questions, not two answers for the same question. I am married to a woman who has known that she desired women since before preschool. When we fell in love, whoever else might attract her did not matter, because she showed love to me. Her sexuality has not led to physical or emotional affairs, but a couple of crushes. She has strong negative reactions to stories of women who discovered similar feelings and suddenly abandoned their husbands. There can be gay closets, as well as straight ones. (I learned this from Kate Millet’s autobiography, before meeting my wife.) I hope that neither of you will assume that, should she feel a persistent desire toward women, she can not want you too. You are reasonable, though, in treating sexual faithfulness the same, whatever gender your wife might desire. Good luck to both of you. Any challenge to the faithfulness of a spouse is serious. — "Andy" Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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"george" geo…@lez.com wrote: >But she is a >diagnosed obssessive/compulsive…
And is she taking any meds for this? ************** As for the rest of the post, it sounds like your wife is a pretty solitary creature. And you sound like a person who bends over backwards trying to get through the shell of solitary creatures. But it’s pretty hard to be an effective husband if your wife won’t let you into her world, as it were. I appreciate that you’ve been exceedingly patient and understand with your wife. But if she’s not going to open up to you, when do you finally draw the line and say "enough’s enough, a person can only beg so much."? CJ
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Well, I have finally solved a long-standing mystery. The mystery was solved when I figured out what she was doing all those nights on the internet. She was not chatting with someone, or meeting another person, or anything like that. I sent a message friday to this newsgroup explaining that I was trying to find my wife, that she had not gone to work, and they were looking for her. Well, I went over to her daughter’s apartment friday night to see if she was there (she has been staying there a week, now). She was there, and we had a long talk. She had taken the day off because she had already put in her hours for the week, and was looking for an apartment. Digression: When I came home from work that evening, I noticed that a chair in front of my synthesizer keyboard, next to my computer, was overturned. I knew someone had been there. I figured my wife had been on the computer. So I opened up internet explorer and looked at the url history. There were fantasy story sites listed. I opened one of them, and it was a Zena web page. The story was about a lesbian sexual encounter between Zena and Gabrielle. It was very graphic. I opened other site, more of the same. The others, more of the same. At first, I was floored. Then everything started to make sense. Some history: My wife has never had very many women friends, in fact, none since we have been married. No close ones at all. In the last three years she has developed a kind of obsession with watching Zena on TV. If it is on, she is watching it. It seemed kind of childish to me, but I quietly let her indulge in this activity, thinking that she needed a female heroine in her life, because she had no girlfriends. She has always dressed more like a man than a woman, doesn’t like make up (a lot of women don’t), or dresses, although she occasionally wears one. But more than that, she has never cared much about her personal apprearance. I always thought (and still do) it to be a self-image problem. Anyway back to our talk friday night. I confronted her with what I had discovered. She had been minimizing the screen to keep me from seeing what she was reading (the Zena stuff). I told her that I had discovered her Zena stories, and believe that she thinks she is a lesbian because she gets turned on when she reads this stuff (no wonder, I read it and I got turned on too). I told her that I didn’t really believe that she is a lesbian just because she gets turned on by lesbian literature. I said that she has never had very many girlfriends, no close ones, has always had men friends, and wasn’t even having sex or knew much about sex until we got married (she married young, had two kids, and then her husband died, the day her youngest daughter was born). I told her that I believed that she has always had trouble making friends, but especially women friends, and at the age of 43, was just now realizing the great void this has caused in her life, that she has this tremendous longing for female companionship. Very understandable. She is bit of a loner. I have many friends, men and women, and have never had trouble making friends. I can’t imagine what it has been like for her not to have any other close friends but me. But that doesn’t mean that she is gay. And just because she gets horny when she reads this stuff doesn’t make her gay. It is very hard for men, any man, to admit that sometimes other men turn them on. Is a man who occassionally has these thoughts gay? No. Neither is a woman who occassionally has these thoughts. But she has obssessed on the idea in the last few months to years. But she is a diagnosed obssessive/compulsive, and it is just the kind of thing that she would do. I truly believe that it is a severe self-esteem issue. One that I wish that she would let me help her with. My wife is a little different. I have known she had some kind of problem for a long time. I asked her on more than one occassion if she would talk to me about why she never has had women friends, and she would only say that she didn’t want to talk about it. That it was too private for her to talk about it with me. Come on, I said, we are best friends, as well as huband and wife. If she can’t tell me, she should at least talk to a councelor or something. Well, she has been seeing one for many months now, and I found out friday that she has never told her any of this. I told her that she really had to discuss it with her. If we are going to a marriage councelor on tuesday, I told her that we had to discuss this issue, because this is one of the central issues affecting our marriage. I explained to her that I was not angry that she was having these feelings, not at all. I told her it was a great relief to know what was going on. I was, however, extremely disappointed that she did not have the faith in me to tell me that she had these feelings. She, of all people should’ve known that I would not get angry. I have told her that having these feelings is not a good enough reason to be ending our marriage. If she had really talked to me about this, if I had known, I would have gone out of my way to help and support her. I told her that there is no reason she can’t have women friends, even gay ones, as long as she is faithful to me. Because if we go the route of a trial separation, and she goes out to "sew her lesbian oats", so to speak, (I mean that in the sense that she goes out and tries to discover if she is really gay, and actually has a lesbian affair, so I mean no disrepect to gay people), to me, this would be no different than having any other extramarital affair. I also told her that I thought that she should give me a chance to help her cope with this problem, that I was her husband, and also have been her best friend (the only one, really, besides her first daughter), and soulmate, and that I was more than willing to help her in any way that I could. She said she appreciated it, but that she had to do this on her own. I told her that I can’t pretend to understand all of this, but I was concerned that she was having a mid-life crisis, and was treading on very dangerous ground, what with Aids, and all of that. I said that I cannot see her having a lesbian lover, especially since she doen’t even like foreplay, or oral sex. She doen’t even like to kiss that much, and I know I am a good kisser (this is not an ego thing, it is the truth, I like to kiss, so I learned when I was young how to do it really well). She said that she want intimacy, that we never had it. This is not true. We have been very intimate on many, many occassions, and not just sexually. In fact, my mother, who has raised seven of us without a husband (who died when I was five years old), said that there was more love bewteen us than any couple she had ever known. Everyone I have talked to who knows us had said this. I told her that if she met some women friends, these lesbian feelings might go away on their own, and then she might realize that she had thrown her marriage away for a fantasy, or hormones or whatever. I don’t think she would forgive herself. I certainly could not forgive her if she did this. She has asked me to sacrifice so much of my life for her and her family, and I have done so willingly, out of love, loyalty, and devotion for her. Because she is the most important thing in the world to me. I know this is outdated in these times of 50% divorce rates – so be it. And she has sacrificed much for me. But I cannot sacrifice my self-respect so she can discover if she is a lesbian or not, when she has made no effort to work this out within the confines of the marriage. I will go to the counseling session tomorrow, and for how ever long we think we need to go, but I really think it is over. Not because I want it to be, and not because I think she doesn’t love me, but because she is obssessing with this idea to such an extent, that she will permanently damage the relationship before she realizes what she has done. What do you think? Any comments and suggestions would be appreciated. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<skyel…@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8sphpu$2q8$1@nnrp1.deja.com… > "george" <geo…@where.com> wrote: > > Hi all. New to the group. Hope it won’t have to become a habit. > This is > > going to be a little long and complicated. Sorry to tell my life > story, but > > can’t tell this any other way. > <snipped rest> > Hi george, > You have quite a lot of stresses in your life. Schizophrenia can be a > nightmare for the loved ones of the one inflicted with it especially > when they refuse to take medication. You have my utmost sympathy. And > you and your wife have my admiration as well, it’s easier at times to > just turn your back and cut off that person from your life. But at the > same time that can be very heart-wrenching as well. It’s a very > difficult position to be in. Sometimes you have to let go for your own > mental health and the health of everyone around you. Surprisingly > enough, this may be the best thing for the one suffering with > schizophrenia as well. (I do know a bit about this because my youngest > sister has schizophrenia — you may want to post in > alt.support.schizophrenia too) > I suspect your wife is using the internet to escape from the problems > at home.. especially having to think about the youngest daughter. It > concerns me that she doesn’t want to share this aspect of her life with > you. Why does she minimize the windows when you come in? It’s bad > enough that she has withdrawn from you and the rest of the family, but > now there seems to be some secrecy. It could be anything. But what > should concern you is that she wants to hide it from you. > Do get into counselling. You both need help coping with your > daughter’s illness. I suspect this largely is contributing to the > breakdown of your marriage. It sounds like you had a very good thing > going.. I’d hate to see you lose it.
… read more »
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"george" geo…@lez.com wrote: >I understand what you’re saying but I really do not agree with you.
I didn’t expect you would. Otherwise you would have said enough is enough some time ago. So in as much as you keep entertaining this situation, I can only presume you’ve yet to become sick and tired of being sick and tired, yet to finally reach the breaking point of saying enough is finally enough. *********** > I >appreciate the concern you express for my well being, but I think I will >make it through this ok. I’m pretty resilient.
Simply because we are resilient seems little reason to continue to endure either bratty adult-children or a thankless uncommitted spouse (who’s going back and forth can only be a source of tension for you and provide you with absolutely no sense of security and confidence about the marriage). ********** > I have never been the kind >of person who solves their problems by running away from them, or divorcing >them.
No, you sound more like a person who perhaps doesn’t value himself enough or stand up for himself enough that he not only tolerates being treated badly but actually repeatedly invites such folks back into his life so that he’s left open to be treated badly again. I don’t at all question that you love your wife or yourstep children. What I do question is how (or rather how little) you must love yourself that you would actually tolerate mistreated this way on a continual basis. ********** > She has more trouble doing this. Besides, we both took a vow that we >both have honored, and I do not believe that divorce will solve her problem. >It might solve mine, but not hers.
It is not your job to save or rescue her, and all the more so if she just keeps pushing you away. ************** > Lets face it, I came into this >relationship with my eyes wide open, knowing full well how difficult it >would be. I dedicated my life to bettering theirs. That is what husbands >and parents are suppose to do.
Parents are suppose to be role models for their kids, set boundaries with their kids, firmly define what’s tolerable and what not tolerable within their household, set limits on behaviour, and hold kids accountable for the decisions the children make for themselves. Children in turn are expect to respect the rules of the house. And if they are not going to, there are consequences — sometimes eviction consequences — for this as well. Husbands are suppose to respectful, loving and committed to their wives. But in return, they have a right to reasonably expect that their wifes will be respectful, loving and committed to them. ************* > If she needs time to sort her problems out, >I am willing to give it to her, I just don’t know how long I can wait
It will predictably go on until one of you finally gets sick and tired of being sick and tired. CJ
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I understand what you’re saying but I really do not agree with you. I appreciate the concern you express for my well being, but I think I will make it through this ok. I’m pretty resilient. I have never been the kind of person who solves their problems by running away from them, or divorcing them. She has more trouble doing this. Besides, we both took a vow that we both have honored, and I do not believe that divorce will solve her problem. It might solve mine, but not hers. Lets face it, I came into this relationship with my eyes wide open, knowing full well how difficult it would be. I dedicated my life to bettering theirs. That is what husbands and parents are suppose to do. If she needs time to sort her problems out, I am willing to give it to her, I just don’t know how long I can wait, and I don’t think she should be trying to do it alone. CJMorgan59 <cjmorga…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001020044150.14452.00000209@ng-bk1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "george" geo…@where.com wrote: > > I’m concerned for her emotional well being. > Better that you finally start to become a little concerned for your own well > being. > As I read your story, I thought what patience to put up with that. Then when I > got to the part where your wife first said she didn’t love you, I thought to > myself "that thankless wretch." > Then when I read the first talk of divorce, I thought, "good, he deserves a > whole hell of a lot better than this." And frankly, I still feel that way. > So your story continues, and it’s the two of you together again, and the porch > scene, and the "I love you more than anything in the world" line, and the > afternoon love making, blah, blah, blah. > Then comes a week or so later, and she’s again back to the line of wanting a > divorce. Good Lord, what kind of crap is that? (and all the more so if you > contrast it with the week before on the porch). > So then you lose it and say you’ve had enough and that if she wants a divorce, > she can have it. > And I’m going YES, YES, YES. > Now don’t get me wrong here, it’s not that I’m against marriage and in favor of > divorce. But rather that I’m reading this all from the perspective of what’s in > your best interest, and I’m just seeing you get beating to a pulp from all > sides. And it’s not good. And I can’t believe you’ve been enduring this much > crap. So when you final say you’re going to agree to a divorce, I’m actually > happy for you, because life on your own or with someone else just has to be > less of a hellish situation than this. > In any event, I read on….and get to yesterday, and the phone call to her > branch office and asking her to come over. > And then I read about the flower and the poem and the making of her favorite > dinner… > … and my heart sinks. > Now I thinking "What the heck are you doing? Are you really such a gutten for > punishment that you keep inviting it back?" > Look, I appreciate that you love your wife and that you’re concerned for her > emotional well being. But quite frankly, I wish you were that loving towards > yourself and that concerned about your own emotional well being. I wish that > you’d firmly stand up to be your own advocate, not to tolerate any of this crap > any more, either from the wife, or from the devil spawn daughter #2. > Frankly from what you’ve described and all you’ve been throught, I would have > thought dear wife would be kissing your feet in appreciation. > I’m sorry, I have no sympathy for her. And in my heart of hearts I honestly > think being rid of her yo-yo-ing and this nightmare family is truly whats in > your best interest. > Sorry if that’s not what you want to hear, but only wish you were at least half > as concerned for yourself as you seem to be for this marriage. Perhaps then > you’d see that you deserve a whole hell of a lot better than this and that if > she’s going to be such a thankless wretch, then good riddence and good for you. > Here’s to looking out for your best interest, > CJ
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Thanks for the reply and the advice. I’m at work right now, and was trying to get in touch with my wife to let her know that her daughter had a check come in the mail, but her office said she has not come in, and they don’t know where she is. I am really worried about her. I don’t think she is suicidal, but I think she sould lose her job if she continues like this. I agree that she is trying to escape from her daughter’s problems, because she knows (and so do I) that we’ll end up raising the new baby (if I’m still allowed to be in her life). We will be getting counceling, but I don’t think it will help, unless the counceler is extraordinary. When the oldest daughter got pregnant at the age of 16, we got her in the county school system’s teenage parent program. It was the best decision we ever made. It saved her life. She graduated with honors. In fact, the mayor of Louisville and the County Judge awarded her the distinction of being the student of the year in her school her senior year. My wife and I went to a grandparents group at the school and got so much out of it that we contiued going after the daughter graduated. It helped us through some really bad times. Unfortunately, the grandparents group died because their funding cut. We have never found anything to replace that group, and I think Ithat has been part of the problem. That group was such a safety net for us, we could sound out our problems, and almost always get great advice, and occasionally gave some back. Since we don’t have that anymore, we have had a hard time coping with the family matters. Just so you know, when the youngest step-daughter was out of the house, we were happiest (I know that sounds terrible, but it is true, nonetheless). She allowed her to come back out of guilt and fear. Helping her straighten her life is one thing, but allowing her to wreck our marriage is another. I don’t blame her really, though. It has been the hardest thing for me to cope with. I can imagine what it must be like for her. Which is why I know that she just needs to get away. But with her state of mind the way it is right now, I am terrified at what she might end up doing. Divorce would be bad enough, at least for me. I have invested all of my energies into this marriage, too much to give up now. If she was seeing someone else, it would be different, but she is not. I am terrified that she wants to end the marriage for all the wrong reasons. Any thoughts? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<skyel…@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8sphpu$2q8$1@nnrp1.deja.com… > "george" <geo…@where.com> wrote: > > Hi all. New to the group. Hope it won’t have to become a habit. > This is > > going to be a little long and complicated. Sorry to tell my life > story, but > > can’t tell this any other way. > <snipped rest> > Hi george, > You have quite a lot of stresses in your life. Schizophrenia can be a > nightmare for the loved ones of the one inflicted with it especially > when they refuse to take medication. You have my utmost sympathy. And > you and your wife have my admiration as well, it’s easier at times to > just turn your back and cut off that person from your life. But at the > same time that can be very heart-wrenching as well. It’s a very > difficult position to be in. Sometimes you have to let go for your own > mental health and the health of everyone around you. Surprisingly > enough, this may be the best thing for the one suffering with > schizophrenia as well. (I do know a bit about this because my youngest > sister has schizophrenia — you may want to post in > alt.support.schizophrenia too) > I suspect your wife is using the internet to escape from the problems > at home.. especially having to think about the youngest daughter. It > concerns me that she doesn’t want to share this aspect of her life with > you. Why does she minimize the windows when you come in? It’s bad > enough that she has withdrawn from you and the rest of the family, but > now there seems to be some secrecy. It could be anything. But what > should concern you is that she wants to hide it from you. > Do get into counselling. You both need help coping with your > daughter’s illness. I suspect this largely is contributing to the > breakdown of your marriage. It sounds like you had a very good thing > going.. I’d hate to see you lose it. > take care… > skyelark > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.
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"george" <geo…@where.com> wrote: > Hi all. New to the group. Hope it won’t have to become a habit. This is > going to be a little long and complicated. Sorry to tell my life story, but > can’t tell this any other way.
<snipped rest> Hi george, You have quite a lot of stresses in your life. Schizophrenia can be a nightmare for the loved ones of the one inflicted with it especially when they refuse to take medication. You have my utmost sympathy. And you and your wife have my admiration as well, it’s easier at times to just turn your back and cut off that person from your life. But at the same time that can be very heart-wrenching as well. It’s a very difficult position to be in. Sometimes you have to let go for your own mental health and the health of everyone around you. Surprisingly enough, this may be the best thing for the one suffering with schizophrenia as well. (I do know a bit about this because my youngest sister has schizophrenia — you may want to post in alt.support.schizophrenia too) I suspect your wife is using the internet to escape from the problems at home.. especially having to think about the youngest daughter. It concerns me that she doesn’t want to share this aspect of her life with you. Why does she minimize the windows when you come in? It’s bad enough that she has withdrawn from you and the rest of the family, but now there seems to be some secrecy. It could be anything. But what should concern you is that she wants to hide it from you. Do get into counselling. You both need help coping with your daughter’s illness. I suspect this largely is contributing to the breakdown of your marriage. It sounds like you had a very good thing going.. I’d hate to see you lose it. take care… skyelark Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
"george" geo…@where.com wrote: > I’m concerned for her emotional well being.
Better that you finally start to become a little concerned for your own well being. As I read your story, I thought what patience to put up with that. Then when I got to the part where your wife first said she didn’t love you, I thought to myself "that thankless wretch." Then when I read the first talk of divorce, I thought, "good, he deserves a whole hell of a lot better than this." And frankly, I still feel that way. So your story continues, and it’s the two of you together again, and the porch scene, and the "I love you more than anything in the world" line, and the afternoon love making, blah, blah, blah. Then comes a week or so later, and she’s again back to the line of wanting a divorce. Good Lord, what kind of crap is that? (and all the more so if you contrast it with the week before on the porch). So then you lose it and say you’ve had enough and that if she wants a divorce, she can have it. And I’m going YES, YES, YES. Now don’t get me wrong here, it’s not that I’m against marriage and in favor of divorce. But rather that I’m reading this all from the perspective of what’s in your best interest, and I’m just seeing you get beating to a pulp from all sides. And it’s not good. And I can’t believe you’ve been enduring this much crap. So when you final say you’re going to agree to a divorce, I’m actually happy for you, because life on your own or with someone else just has to be less of a hellish situation than this. In any event, I read on….and get to yesterday, and the phone call to her branch office and asking her to come over. And then I read about the flower and the poem and the making of her favorite dinner… … and my heart sinks. Now I thinking "What the heck are you doing? Are you really such a gutten for punishment that you keep inviting it back?" Look, I appreciate that you love your wife and that you’re concerned for her emotional well being. But quite frankly, I wish you were that loving towards yourself and that concerned about your own emotional well being. I wish that you’d firmly stand up to be your own advocate, not to tolerate any of this crap any more, either from the wife, or from the devil spawn daughter #2. Frankly from what you’ve described and all you’ve been throught, I would have thought dear wife would be kissing your feet in appreciation. I’m sorry, I have no sympathy for her. And in my heart of hearts I honestly think being rid of her yo-yo-ing and this nightmare family is truly whats in your best interest. Sorry if that’s not what you want to hear, but only wish you were at least half as concerned for yourself as you seem to be for this marriage. Perhaps then you’d see that you deserve a whole hell of a lot better than this and that if she’s going to be such a thankless wretch, then good riddence and good for you. Here’s to looking out for your best interest, CJ
Response:
Hi all. New to the group. Hope it won’t have to become a habit. This is going to be a little long and complicated. Sorry to tell my life story, but can’t tell this any other way. Background: I am 42 years old. My wife is 43. I am catholic(non-practicing), she is Jewish (ditto). She is originally from California, I’m from Kentucky. We live in Louisville, where I was raised. She considers Kentucky to be her home. We are both Professional Geologists, and met in College. But we didn’t start dating in earnest until after we both started working for the same consulting firm. We both had bad experiences with the firm, and left it together. We decided to try to start our own company (I know, don’t work with a loved one or spouse – never was a problem, though). She has two girls (women): (No children from our marriage). One is currently twenty-two, the other is twenty. I have almost always gotten along with the oldest, in fact we are very close. She has a little boy who is six years old (she got pregnant two months before the wife and I got married). The youngest one, though, has never accepted me. She has been diagnosed with schizopreniform psychosis (at the age of 17). Diggression – this girl has been a living nightmare for the both of us. Quit school (blames us for her quitting). She once kicked me in the face, cusses me out all the time, ran away twice, was mixed up with a really bad bunch of drug addicts and criminals, took my new (at the time) car for a joy ride before she was old enough to get a license and nearly totalled it. Fortunately, nobody got hurt. She tried to commit suicide twice. Both times with drugs. Finally, my wife had to kick her out. The first time was before she turned 18. Then I kicked her out after she turned 18 (trashed the house in a party while we were away – her FRIENDS stole my computer, cameras, and other things. She has broken the back door, and at least five windows in the house, and busted holes in the walls. I spend most of my free time fixing things. All in all, between my wife and I, she had to move out at least five times. She has been in trouble with the law. We tried to get some serious help for her, through the courts (what a joke), and finally after her last suicide attempt (when she got her diagnosis). She was put on medication, which seemed to help her along with the therapy. But she quit taking the medicine and therapy after she turned 18. Then she decided to move back to California (to get away from us Kentucky hicks). She tried to live with her grandparents – they kicked her out too. Then with her two aunts. No good. She lived from day to day (we think she hooked some of the time), in flop houses, and occassionally with men and other girls, until they couldn’t stand it any longer and kicked her out. Anyway, this went on for over a year. Then, last March, my wife suddenly anounced that daughter #2 was coming home. I tried to get along, even tried to reconcile with her. Same old story. She began working at strip joints as a dancer. I had to kick her out again because she refused to respect our wishes and not do drugs, especially in our home. She came back two weeks later, and started it all over again. I had to kick her out again. After another two weeks, two of her friends came over and told me that she was pregnant. Terrific! Well, I for one thought she needed to come home, whatever her problems, she was going to have a child and was going to need all the help she could get. My wife agreed, and so she came home. Things were pretty good for a while – she quit smoking, and doing drugs (I really worry about the child, though). Things settled down some. Then in July, took my wife, oldest step-daughter, and step-grandchild to Kings Island (youngest one didn’t go, she had to work, she says). Had a great time. Bought the youngest one a tee-shirt. Gave it to her the next morning, she thanked me, then proceeded into a tirade because she had bought a loaf of bread and someone had eaten some of it (Come on! Really). I explained that I had made breakfast for everyone, and we didn’t have any other bread, and that I would buy her another loaf. She proceeded to curse at me and everyone else, and yelled at the grandchild. I had had enough, I tried to give her five dollars for the bread, and she smacked it out of my hand, cursed at me some more. I asked her to leave, and turned and she hit me in the back of the head with a hard shoe. I got furious, and tried to go after her (I might have hit her, if my wife hadn’t intervened – she was in the bathroom through all of this). I know – my getting angry was the worst thing I could have done. My wife decided that she wanted a divorce. Said she didn’t love me anymore. We talked through all of our emotions, and did not make the leap. The daughter came home that evening. Next two weeks were hard for us all. But things cooled down Meat of the problem: My wife and I have been passionately in love with each other since we first started dating. She is my soulmate. We try to share as much of the burdens as we can. I have tried to be as supportive of her and her children as any step-father can. She is a saint. She moved here from California during the recession of 1981, she says because there was more work here than there (even though I know we had 11% unemplyment at the time). Anyway, she worked and went to school and raised her two daughters on her own. It was very hard for her. Which, I think is partially why she married me. I know this, but I wanted to help her, and make her life and their lives better, and easier. It has been very hard, and has really stressed our relationship. For the past two months, she has become increasingly distant. Although we were still having sex – great sex, always (never with great frequency, however – I’ll take it when I can get it), she was increasingly wanting more time to herself. Then, when I got a dsl hook up, she became obssessed with being on-line – can’t blame her there, its awesome! However, she was coming home, going on-line, and staying on-line until it was time to go to work the next morning. I’m laying there in bed all night waiting for her to come up. I’m an insomniac, so I can understand the obssession she was having with the internet. I usually get on-line or otherwise work on the computer until 2-3 in the morning about once to three times a week. But she was doing this every single night for weeks, and staying up all night. I knew that with her it was more than an addiciton, she was avoiding me, although we were generally talking fine. There’s more. She has obssessive-compulsive disorder, as does her sister. She has been going to a psychiatrist for a couple of years. She has been seeing a therapist for at least five months. Her sister has it worse than she does, at least until now. All the time she was staying up all night I knew, or suspected, that she was contemplating leaving me. She has said several times over the last year that she wanted to be alone. She was in a way, pushing me and her children (but not the grandchild) away from her. She asked for space. I gave it to her, as much as she wanted, and didn’t push the issue. Then a month ago, I went out of town for a week. When I returned, she was back on the computer. I tried to talk to her about her problems, but she was so cold about it all. She said she didn’t miss me while I was gone, and thought it would be best if we got a divorce. We talked about it, and she said that we should see a therapist. She said it would help my transition. Like a jerk, I said "what’s the point, you’ve already made up your mind?! We talked some more, and I told her that if she thought it would help, we could go. That night she sat at the computer, while I laid in bed awake. The next day, with the grandchild in the livingroom, the two daughters got into a really bad catfight over a $2 daytimer (they do not get along either-youngest totally resents the oldest, oldest can’t stand of the youngest). I calmly stepped between the two, and asked the oldest to take her little boy (my buddy) and go home (I was totally concerned for his emotional and possibly physical wellbeing at this point). My wife asked the youngest to leave. She started to waile that we were kicking her out, even though she was pregnant. My wife explained that she wasn’t kicking her out, she just wanted her to go cool off somewhere. We sat on the front porch and talked about things, and I asked her if she still wanted to leave me, and she said that at that moment she loved me more than anything in the world (best thing anyone ever said to me). We made love that afternoon, some of the best sex I’ve ever had. Then, when there was a lull in the conversation, she got up and stayed on the computer all night. The next week (last week) she went out of town, and the youngest step-daughter decided that she didn’t want to stay at home with me, so she moved into a shelter. She said it would be easier for her to get public housing (she can’t hold a job for more than a week, and has had more jobs in three years than anyone I know). So I stayed home, went to work, and piddled around the house. Wife and I talked every night on the phone. When she got home at the end of the week, she was so exhausted whe went straight to bed. Field work in Geology is, after all, very physical. Totally understand how she felt. Been there many times. Next day, we went to take my mother to the doctor. She had fallen earlier in the week, and had received a hairline fracture in her hip, and some bruised ribs. When we got there, my wife said that she was real hungry and tired (she didn’t eat the night before). So I told my mom I was going to take my wife to get something to eat, and take her home, and would be back to pick her up. So we did just that. After I dropped my mother off, I got home to find my wife on the … read more »
I would have to classify him with Delusional Disorder. The delusions in delusional disorder tend to be nonbizarre and involve situations that could conceivably occur in real life. It does not generally lead to severe impairment but the person may become progressively involved with the delusion. Most people are able to remain employed. <VBG 
Maryb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking around, and frantically trying to straighten up, the weekend’s carnage of non-housekeeping, and I have to wonder.. what does YOUR house (apartment/trailer/studio/room/toolshed) look like? Please check the appropriate box: Right now my answer is: [x] Pretty Good. There may be a dustball or two under the beds, and a stray potato chip under the couch cushion. Perhaps a couple of dishes in the sink or a single basket of laundry. Your loved ones, if not totally wrinkle free, are still clean and presentable. Your mother would still be proud. I cleaned my apartment yesterday. Now I can actually see my floor again, and even eat, as there are some clean dishes. I hadn’t been cleaning for 3 months, with the following results: The overall state was definitely [x] Pretty Damn Bad. The dishes have green stuff growing on them in the sink. Not only in the sink, there were dirty dishes all over the kitchen. On the table, on the ironing board, on chairs. Well, not on the floor, I don’t have that many dishes. No one has clean underwear, And the floor was covered by a layer of dirty underwear. The carpet squishes when you walk on it, I’d say it crickled too. and there’s something growing under the couch cushions, Thank god I have no couch, but there definitely was something growing under the layer of dirty underwear. There’s a green ring in the toilet bowl, In my case, it was violet. People are writing messages in the dust on your entertainment center, and you are writing nasty replies to them. And dust balls were the size of a poodle. Papers, dried up pizza and sandwiches are -stuck- to most surfaces, as are used Popsicle sticks and an odd wad of gum. Well, a caterpillar would surely have been handier than the vacuum cleaner. Your mother calls the Health Department. I didn’t let her in, so she didn’t know, but I was actually on the verge of doing that myself. Liss — Let me think: was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different. But if I’m not the same, the next question is, Who in the world am I? Ah, that’s the great puzzle! (Alice in Wonderland) Share what you know. Learn what you don’t. 
mary an inspace ppls 